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toothlessrufus New user 38 Posts 
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Hi, I was just wondering if anybody knew of a clean oil and water team did not use extra cards or gaff cards or require any cleanup or use any moves that don’t make sense ? I can’t imagine there are any that meet all these requirements but doesn’t hurt to ask. There are a lot of routines. I thought the Ascanio sleightless oil and water (or so it seems) sounded promising at first but it doesn’t meet all the criteria. I guess could use a ditch or a raven or topit or something at the end.? I really like the plot but not using counts that are obviously hiding something.
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warren Inner circle uk 4199 Posts
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I was never a fan of this plot however Craig Petty has what I consider one of the best Oil and Water effects which he teaches over on his Netrix and it has a really nice kicker finish. This is the only version I have actually wanted to perform.
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 191 Posts
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Can you specify what you mean by "moves that don't make any sense"? Does that include Mr. Elmsley?
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1199 Posts
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I found this performance of Ascanio's Oil & Water. TBH it does look rather contrived to me in places. I would not describe this as "sleightless" - is this the one you bought?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=gEK7zwOnNGY (If you want no extra cards, no gaff cards AND "sleightless", it sounds like you want real magic!) Anyway - The WGM Oil & Water download/DVD has some good handlings. Also Aldo Columbini put together a couple of compilations. |
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AceOfJokers New user 65 Posts
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21277 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 10, 2024, Nikodemus wrote: Absolutely it is contrived through most of it. Having to do all the get ready things to even do the contrived moves didn’t help either.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21277 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 10, 2024, AceOfJokers wrote: The tutorial power was kind of unnecessary. It was exposed during the performance.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1199 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 11, 2024, Dannydoyle wrote: 
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21277 Posts
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Part not power.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 191 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 10, 2024, Nikodemus wrote: I have the Colombini compilation DVDs (O&W Part 1 and O&W Part 2), which I highly recommend for fans of O&W routines. At $10 each you get a lot of bang for the buck. Not sure if they're still available though. Anyway, Nick Trost's "14 Card O&W" (also on the Colombini set) is about as sleightless as you can get. No extras, no gaffs, no difficult moves, and everything is examinable.
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Wravyn Inner circle 3531 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 11, 2024, R.S. wrote: The Aldo Colombini compilations are available at lybrary.com and are still $10 each. |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 191 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 11, 2024, Wravyn wrote: Great - thanks Wravyn!
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1199 Posts
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ToothlessRufus,
I think I probably had similar criteria to you when trying to find an Oil & Water routine that suited me. I wanted it to be sufficiently magical, within my capabilities, and not to have weird moves that would arouse suspicion. In the WGM collection, I found a couple of performances by Bill Malone, that were both (I think) Marlo routines. Both apparently had 8 cards. One genuinely had just 8, the other had a covert extra card (like many handlings). I decided the 8 card version had some good material, and liked the idea of not having an extra card to clean up. But there was one phase that I thought was unconvincing (especially when done by me!) Also another phase had a move I found rather tricky. So I ended up adding a phase from the Jennings routine on the same video; and simplifying the bit that was too tricky. In the end I had something I was happy with. So you might want to look at Malone and Jennings in that collection. But I think the most important point is that there are LOTS of O&W handlings out there, and you can pick'n'mix to create a version that works for you. |
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Alan Morgan Regular user 106 Posts
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I've been working on two phases recently. The first was taught by Juan Tamariz in the "Agua y Aceite y ni Ciego" segment of his Magic From My Heart video, where a packet of 8 cards is riffle shuffled twice (the second time by a spectator). I really like it as an introductory phase before even mentioning Oil and Water. Does anyone have a better citation for this trick?
Then I go into Ray Kosby's Never The Twain Shall Mix, with the cards that came to the top in the first phase being the spectator's packet so the same cards will rise to the top. The two very different methods work well to cancel out anyone trying to backtrack the first method. It's good to have a phase with an Elmsley count too, and you can mix it up like show the first packet with an Elmsley count and the other with an Olram subtlety if you're worried about repetition. |
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Kjellstrom Inner circle Sweden, Scandinavia, Europe 5204 Posts
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I can strongly recommend Darwin Ortiz Ultimate Oil & Water from the superb book Scams and Fantasies with Cards, page 158. A very clean and very strong routine.
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1199 Posts
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Darwin's Ultimate Oil & Water is indeed amazing. Here's a performance by Jason Ladanye -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mLj7MM8oDo It does use an extra card though, which the OP said he prefers to avoid. The Ortiz effect can be split conceptually into the section with 6 cards, plus the kicker ending with the whole deck. Ie. you could add the whole deck kicker to pretty much any O&W routine. Also worth mentioning that the whole-deck section requires a lot of skill if you want to do the whole thing - showing the colours separated, then instantly showing them alternating. But much easier if you are happy to just show the cards have all separated. No need for the Faro shuffle etc. And still mind-blowing for the spectators who just shuffled the deck a few minutes earlier. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21277 Posts
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I generally really like Jason’s work a lot but there are a LOT I of strange moves in this. I mean even at the finale they have already shuffled the deck so when you go back and mix it more it completely negates the fact that they did anything. This looks very far from natural. Unfortunately like most of the routines that fall into this category it is not natural.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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toothlessrufus New user 38 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 10, 2024, R.S. wrote: I just mean handlings that are very obviously hiding something. The Elmsley count does not fall into this category. It looks natural and makes sense. There are some that do not quite make sense but are reasonable such as the Olram subtlety, but generally fly by ok. Quote:
On Apr 10, 2024, Nikodemus wrote: I don't want sleightless I prefer sleightful. There can also be extra cards or gaffs, as long as theres a clean up possible and it ends examinable. Its the effect that matters but I don't like to end red handed. For example, I can think of a couple of sequences from routines using a S*****er deck that look fantastic, and genrally considered to be examinable to casual inspection. In close up I would ideally want everything examinable, but for parlor or stage I could see this not being necessary. People aleays want to check everything out. And furtively putting it away is something else I would personally like to avoid. Quote:
On Apr 10, 2024, AceOfJokers wrote: I like this! I saw a similar move in David Regals Perfectly Oiled and I like how it was used here. This would make a good phase. Im going to incorporate this. Thank you! Quote:
On Apr 11, 2024, R.S. wrote: I got these and will check them out thanks! Quote:
On Apr 11, 2024, Nikodemus wrote: I will check these out! Also I hadnt thought of mix-n-match, but that makes sense!! THanks! Thanks again to everybody; you have given me some very helpful suggestions! I am going to find sequences fro m different Oil and Water effects that I like and that meet or approximate my criteria for inclusion and try to string them together into a routine. |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 191 Posts
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"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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dj Inner circle 1190 Posts
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I wonder if it could be cleaner than this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05pPuxufFgA |
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Posted: Apr 9, 2024 11:51 pm 
