I agree that school shows are not widely available today, but I think that one of the main reasons it slowed down was the ‘trust’ issue. Even before COVID, schools started requiring visitors to have a ‘local’ background check with a fingerprint record on file. And it's sad to say that the world has changed even more in the last few years making it even harder to trust out of town people.

The local magician can still get in if they have properly positioned themselves within their own community. But that’s not so easy for many.

Tom

Yes, properly positioned, they can get in. In fact, those books and many others carry the same theories and formulas to success, yet they are not useful publications to obtain the desired results. Even though the markets may be the same, in today's world, the techniques require different practices. Just because there is proven theory, it does not equate into how to put them into practice. This is where I perceive both Danny's and Mindpro's posts are usually headed, the sharing of the current process needed towards the desired goals. I have noticed that within their posts, they do not leave out those theories, they instruct on how to use them properly.
If the methods used for a successful booking are not perceived as professional, no matter the quality of the show, there will be word of mouth and some of it not as we would like. The show may be good and the performer really nice, unfortunately another word shows up in the discussion... BUT
'But' is a very negative and condescending word, one that brings pause to a positive experience... The food was excellent BUT; I enjoyed myself, BUT;

I agree with you, word of mouth is a great marketing tool, yet it can also be very destructive, and it is my opinion that this may be the reason this thread was started, to also bring awareness of its double edge, while also bringing solutions to prevent the undesired effects of damaging.

The word “but”. Yea…

My father used to say that everything before the word “but” came out of the North end of a Southbound horse.

You also make a fantastic point about old information. Also this is the problem with doing “research”. How often do we see the phrase “I read it is so and so’s book”? Only to find that the book may be old or they cherry pick the information for confirmation bias or better yet just to prove another wrong? It is so silly.

In our day and age information that is even just 5 years old can be totally out of date and misinformed. Some information that is 100 years old will be perfect. Unless you are in there daily working you have no idea what the difference is and look very silly trying to teach it.

Wravyn,

I hope you didn’t take it that my line with “But that’s not so easy for many”
was in any way directed at you. It’s not ‘easy’ for ‘anybody’ and it takes time, because as you said, the word of mouth can work against you. It too can be taken the wrong way.

If I offended, I’m sorry. I mean that.

Tom

Wravyn,

Let me add and Just to be clear, it’s not ‘theory’ when I speak about the education system. I have been involved with the local schools and the board of education for many, many years. Of course, I can only speak for my local and State laws and polices. This can vary from state to state, and I or anybody else on here can’t give you all the answers you need.

Anyway, good luck with your search.

Tom

No offense taken, so please do not worry.

Thanks Wravyn, I appreciate that.

I’ll be happy to send you a copy of my newest local school polices, but then again, that will probably be completely different from your state.

Tom

No need, though the gesture is appreciated. I am not planning on school shows. When 'educational presentations' was mentioned, it brought up the thoughts of keeping kids safe now fell into the equation. Mindpro's reply answered the question, unfortunately it derailed the thread.
I am quite interested in the topic of preventing the damage and the ways to prevent it successfully.

I couldn't disagree more. I'm sorry but everything Tom said is incorrect. What he speaks of is nothing about the current state of today's school education market. As someone who does 200-300 Pre-K to 12 public schools nationwide a year (including Mississippi) consistently for 35 years, and is part of many state and national PTA, PTO, Principal's Associations, Athletic Associations, Student Councils, and 8 other school association groups, I can say 100% this is not true. Nor is it true that no one here can provide the info or the answers he was seeking. There are several of us here that know and specialize in the school market quite well.

I do not buy for a minute that you have been part of any board of education for any public school systems in the last 10 years, sorry. Just because you owned a daycare center and were "involved" as you say, in no way makes you knowledgeable about the K-12 public school market nationwide.

This whole nonsense I agree that school shows are not widely available today, but I think that one of the main reasons it slowed down was the ‘trust’ issue. Even before COVID, schools started requiring visitors to have a ‘local’ background check with a fingerprint record on file. And it's sad to say that the world has changed even more in the last few years making it even harder to trust out of town people.

The local magician can still get in if they have properly positioned themselves within their own community. But that’s not so easy for many.

This is completely wrong as well. This is nothing more than his opinion, yet trying to be passed off as factual. Again, opinions are fine but should remain in this context not pretending they are factual or offered as advice or as answers to others seeking specific information here.

Over the past 10 years, I just looked it up, I have done hundreds of schools in 47 different states, and only 2 times in this 10 year period did any schools require any kind of a local background check, finger-printing, retina-identification, or any kind of similar security checks or increased measures.

I started this thread for the sole purpose as not to derail Tom's, to discuss the realities of the damaging side of word-of-mouth, and to possibly to take this in a different direction. I do not understand why you have this insatiable need to attempt to put yourself in every thread topic, especially since you are not an entertainer or owns and operates a current entertainment business?

The statement about trust issues is wrong as well as those that schools have had and trust and relationships are easily still rebooked regularly. It is the "out of town" people that you seem to have such a problem with for some reason that schools are bringing in rather than the locals. There are reasons for this if you actually understand the school market. Again, regardless of your opinions and theories, there are still many school programs and shows available and it can still be a hugely strong market IF one completely knows and understands this market from the inside. If anything, it is the local guy that may be having troubles, especially if they also do kids parties and it is known in their local market. This is what schools are apprehensive about. Magician's messed up the opportunity for magic in the school market themselves by claiming to be something they were not and trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the school administrators. Again, great advice that came from a magician's marketing course. Good job!

So to be clear all this from Tom is theory and opinions and should be viewed as such.

At least that last part is happening.

LOL.

A large part of my family is heavily involved in the school systems TODAY. And that's the real fact.


Tom

Really. I hope you're not telling others here they can just walk into a public school and teach, or volunteer to help, without a background check and the proper paperwork.

I hope others will simply google it and find out the real facts about who needs a background check to work around children in schools.

And just to be clear, Every state has its own distinct laws when it comes to background checks. There is no such thing as having one backgound check that applies to all states.

Tom

A large part of my family are carpenters and involved in the construction industry. TODAY. And that’s the real fact.

Guess that must qualify me to build houses and be a general contractor according to this ridiculous theory.

No Danny, it won’t qualify you. But ask them if they need the proper permits to build a house.


By the way, I’ve had many background checks done. But to work with children again today I would need a new one because they only last for about five years, and you need to get a new one. At one time it was required here every other year.

Tom

So you haven’t been involved for 5 years at least. Thank you for telling us.

Very old information.

No, what I said was I haven’t had a background check in five years. But I don’t need one of those to talk to my wife, or school family and friends to keep up to date on school happenings.

But my question is, why wouldn’t a school performer want one, if nothing else its a great selling point when seeking school shows. Mindpro never said he didn’t have one, so maybe he can tell us why they all assumed he did.

Anyway, enough of our rambling. Those serious about background checks in schools can Google and find out for themselves.

Tom

Nobody said they didn’t want one. You made that up. Stop doing that. And YOU are the only one rambling as always.

I’m now going to build a house because I’m the world’s foremost authority on it since many in my family are carpenters. Then I’m going to find a general contractor and tell him everything he knows is wrong because I can talk to my family about it

Nope, I never said any such things. Also you will not find info on working the school market on Google. If anything, only outdated surface information at best.

I had originally included in my post but decided to delete it in the name of space and content, but those that work in school - teachers, faculty, coaches, aides, secretaries/receptionists, PTA/PTO and other parent/home associations, school administration office workers, volunteers - none of them understand the actual workings of the school market. They tend to only know specific things as it relates or pertains to their position or closely related, but not the actual workings of the school market, sorry. They think they do, but in reality do not.

I come from a family of educators including Principals, councilors, 8 teachers, special ed teachers/district heads, state-winning coaches, several with masters and doctorates in education, and even they do not know the school market. Everyone knows their specialized areas, some more than others, some including several areas, but in over 45 years of specializing in the school market and working directly with thousands of school representatives on all levels, not a single one knew the real understanding of the school market. I have literally (and still do regularly) have these same school reps contact me to ask questions they need to know about the school market. Same for at conferences and conventions. Same for when I am booked to educate teachers and staff at teacher in-service days/events. It is all news to them.

The problem with school representative is it is very departmentalized and the left hand doesn't communicate with the right hand.

"Keeping up with school happenings" as you put it is also not knowing the school market, but simply just surface-level stuff, most which is public anyhow.

If you're trying to use having completed a background check as a selling point you have bigger issues in your marketing and positioning.

The problem is everything you are saying Tom is what you are hearing in the media and publicly and some school workers. Unfortunately much is not enforced if even ever put in place. Sure some schools have tightened up security perhaps a bit, but usually that's about it. Some inner-city schools have scanners/detectors, but often they are broken or not in use.

Again with all of this psychobabble. Why? Some of us here are trying to have serious discussion about entertainment business.

Now back to the topics of having an actual market-ready performance(s) and what it takes, and why most do not know or realize they truly do not have it or are not ready. And why most magicians just want to brush over this? Also having your show audited or critiqued.

And the ongoing topic of having the right business model and operations established behind your performance(s). The ERF we started touching on, and as Wravyn brought up - "There is a major difference between philosophy and the actual practices of the business." Wow, this is so true as we see here regularly. This really needs to be explored and discussed more as this is very significant, so crucial and important, and something many have trouble understanding and separating. This alone can be a game-changer!

That was my second favorite laugh from Tricky Business this year.