In an effort to not derail Tom's sensitive thread and be accused of his nonsense, I thought I'd create this thread to offer just some of what was missing from the previous theory and opinion.

Also, just to give Tom and his theory the benefit of doubt, the thing that happens so much that you fail to mention in your original post is how word-of-mouth can also work so greatly AGAINST you if you have an underdeveloped, not market-ready, string-of-tricks-just-thrown-together show that causes people to talk bad about you, it, and their acceptance.

Try talking to someone whose performing was meant with poor reception or bad feedback. It has ruined many before they ever really get started all because they follow their "me-based" thoughts and opinions (uneducated, inexperienced) and attempt to try to be something they are not yet. Or worse yet listened to other magicians that always proclaim "just do it!" Again, this is where the wrong advice can hurt them deeply and be quite damaging.

This can be so damaging, in fact often more damaging than anything else. It is when word-of-mouth is a detriment and can stall a career, or halt a performing business, prevent acceptance, growth, and forward progress, and as everyone knows it is so much harder to overcome a bad image, perception, and reputation and even try to attempt to correct this than it is to create the right perception in the first place.

This is also damaging to all of the other local guy and gal workers as it affects them, their perception and the perception of the local magician everywhere. It affects their earning ability, makes them have to market more and differently to disassociate themselves with all of this, and often results in stagnant pay in their market. Word-of-mouth can also be very damaging.

Like others I pointed out in my Year In Review thread I was going to sit this one out until I saw so much misinformation or perhaps incomplete information as theory being presented as factual. This is what results in people getting poor business advice than can be both costly and damaging.

This is the real greater discussion to be had.

Mindpro, I completely agree that word of mouth does work both ways.

And for the record I did say, and I quote,

“Now if you want to give them something to really talk about, give them something bad, something they don’t like, and the news will spread like wildfire. The good news always travels slower. You know that saying, bad news travels fast, good news travels slow.”


Sorry I didn’t expand on that part more. But I don’t like pointing out all the bad because I believe it's important to avoid criticizing others without providing constructive alternatives first. Sometimes its best that they find their own faults. Instead of focusing on faults, maybe we should strive to offer better solutions. I think this approach promotes a more positive and helpful mindset and creates a more supportive environment.

Again, I agree word of mouth does work both ways.

Tom

For sure!

There is a sentence in the magic community that is both (seriously) misunderstood, not comprehended, and simply glanced over that will almost ALWAYS come back to bite you in the a$#. I have even used it myself here on the forum and in several of my books and courses, which is "of course this assumes that your performance is properly in place, polished, rehearsed, and market-ready" or any similar variation.

So many business and marketing topics are all based on you (the performer) having all of this in place, perfected or at least highly practiced and polished, before accepting the subsequent content be offered.

What happens? Most magicians just brush over this and want to get to the other information being offered. The result is the vast majority of magicians attempting to perform and conduct marketing before they are truly ready. So it becomes this damaging problem from their very beginning. This is what happens when there is no gatekeeper or proper standard process to abide by. It is what happens immediately as a result of "me-based" thinking, operations, and execution.

Anything done after this will suffer the same as well.

This is why learning and doing things in the right sequential order is so important in both learning to perform and then also the business aspect of performing. If you don't know the proper sequential order, then THIS should be your first step and biggest priority to discover or learn.

Why on earth wouldn't you want your performance to be the best it can be and become truly market ready BEFORE you ever appear in public or attempt to market?

Then even WORSE is the guys or gals come on here and complain that their marketing isn't working for them or that they can't get any bookings, or that their marketing has failed, or this doesn't work, or the popular this doesn't work in my area, or a host of other self-justified, poor excuses...anything but turning the truth back on themselves and what they are lacking or doing wrong.

I see this in so many that I coach, consult or work with. It is the most problematic aspect I see in magicians. Its practically an epidemic!

The absolute best investment a newer performer could make is having someone with knowledge, experience and credentials to critique their performance before ever going to market or trying to perform publicly. Of course, this has to include putting your ego and me-based thoughts aside and truly listening, hearing, and fully understanding the critique IN THE PROPER CONTEXT with the willingness to learn and progress as a result of this. Most do not do this. Most can not or are not willing to do this.

This one simple step is the single-most thing that can create a world of difference and progress to a new or young performer. Heck I do this with guys that have been performing 25, 30, 40 years or more and they are still amazed at what they can learn and do to make their show and performance even better. When I have worked with or coached contestants from America's Got Talent, this if often credited as their biggest gain from the experience. I hear this almost daily.

This is the whole reason years ago I had to add Show Performance Consulting and Show Performance Training to my coaching offerings. Not because I really wanted to do this, but because it was soooo needed.

People often ask me about ROI on coaching and consulting, and this is a fine example where it can often shorten the learning curve and process by YEARS and often pay off with the greatest ROI hundreds of times over without a doubt.

THIS is what most young or newer performers should be working on. This is what the rah-rah guys or other magicians should be stating (yet most of them do not understand this themselves) to truly help someone and set them up on the right path from the beginning. Knowing how to do things right and properly is the best investment you can make in yourself and ultimately your business.

I think this topic deserve a lot more attention. Performers seem to think of the business behind their show as marketing, but in reality your PERFORMANCE is also part of your business operations and executions. In fact, it is the sole business component that everything else is based upon.

I would love to have greater discussion, which I can't ever remember seeing here (I could be wrong) about crafting and creating your performance or show as a business entity - from a business perspective, as it pertains to your business operations. These must work hand in hand to expect any type of real results or success. If your performance is not properly created, if it doesn't contain all of the necessary elements and components of a successful performance, is not market-appropriate and specific, and is not theatrically created, executed, and structured, you will soon find yourself having problems in both the performance and business areas of your operations.

Creating a show or performance is both an art and science. I do not feel most magicians understand this very much and rather just tend to focus only on the tricks that they choose to perform without a fuller or complete understanding of what each element (tricks) that you let enter your show, it's purpose, and the actual ERF it represents. There is a whole backend behind every single component you put into your show. Each needs to perform exactly as needed or it works against you and your performance. Just as most do not properly setup their business operations right for their desired outcome, I absolutely feel the same in the way most put together their show. There is so much more than meets the eye.

That is the difference between a hobbyist/amateur and someone who wants to be serious about performing for profit or even publicly.

There is so much to this to really do this right. Most magicians spend their entire performing careers working on their show without this info which is why so many always are having problems and their show is always an ongoing, continual work in progress trying to get it better or right. This is also the very first place where the differences of operating from a me-based perspective and an industry perspective shows itself. Yet most do not ever see or realize this.

ERF?

This is an interesting topic, what do you believe is the proper sequential order in a
new performer developing a show?

I recall you set out the business operations order in last year's thread.

When you say: "As it pertains to your business operations" do you mean that
literally as in "selling from the stage" for example, or more figuratively as in
your main offering as a business?

Great topic, I hope some more folks add their input.

I too would love to have a good business discussion here. But it is so hard because it all comes back to, it's all about the show, it's all about the show, it's all about the show, it's all about the show, it's all about the show, it's all about the show, it's all about the show, my show is better than your show, etc, etc,

And if that is really the case, what is there to discuss?

Well plenty, because business is NOT ALL about the product/show.

I’ve told this before on here, but for those that missed it: The ole saying, ‘build a better mousetrap and people will beat a path to your door’ has confused so many people, especially magicians. Because that’s not true at all. What happens if they can’t find your door? What happens if they don’t like the salesperson? What if they don’t like the price? What if this, and what if that?

Well let me tell you what happens, that ole man with the greatest mousetrap in the world goes out of business pretty soon and he never understands why it happened. But I know why, because he knew everything there is to know about catching rats, and absolutely nothing about doing business.

Having a good show is just a good starting point, with the expectation of it getting better over time.

Tom

Fedora, sorry for jumping in on your question, didn't see it, Mindpro can answer it now.

ERF is something that I talk a lot about in many of my trainings, courses, books, coaching, and consultings and is used in so many aspects of both our entertainment businesses and our performances, and also in other areas such as marketing, hiring, management, partnerships, promotions, pricing, relationships, and literally almost any element to business and even our lives.

It stands for Expected Response Formula. Which breaks down to mean what is the expected result of a specific action(s). For example, when creating a marketing piece, a marketing campaign, or even a letter or post card, a website, you do not just create it and then hope for the best. When done properly, you know the exact expected results you are expecting from it. It actually dictates how you create it, for whom, and why.

Same for pricing, your ERF is the reason and purpose you are choosing the pricing or price points you are determining, It's specific desired reason and purpose, and expected response and results. As mentioned above as pertaining to your show, when creating a trick or effect, you should actually be deciding on the reason and purpose you are creating it, where you need to place it to get the exact expected results you are seeking. For example your opening has a different ERG than say a transition, vs. a dramatic or climatic point in your show, or your specific strong closing. Not just that but exactly how it should play and the exact expected response it should illicit.

This way an effect will in your show will always align with your business and market.

As an example of this I was once training a DJ for one of my agencies. I was at an event at the Palmer House Hilton in Chicago. Dinner was over and it was at the point to open the dancefloor up to dancing. A normal DJ would simply start playing a bit more uptempo songs with more of a dance beat in the hopes of soon getting someone or a couple to hop out on to the dancefloor and begin dancing. The hope is that when seeing this maybe another couple or two would join in and then of course the DJ would progress from that. This is how most DJ think, act, and operate.

But to demonstrate the ERG to our DJ, I dealt in much more specifics. I said here, cue this song up (it was Respect by Aretha Franklin.) I said powerstart this without talking over it (just a cold start) and pointing to the second table on our right, I said "the lady in the Yellow dress" and then pointing to the table behind hers I said "the guy in the green jacket with the lady in the beige dress next to him," "along with these two girls," pointing to the table to our far left "in the blue and red dresses as the one in the blue will kick off her shoes as she gets up," and "the four people at the table right in front of us will all get up to dance." He looked at me like I was kidding. I told him I was dead serious. I said those exact people will get up and dance within 17 seconds, and then the dancefloor will pack to 3/4 capacity within the next 30 seconds. He thought I was nuts. I told the videographer to be sure to record this.

The current playing song ended, he powerstarted Respect as I just sat back and smiled, as we watched exactly what happened. Everything I said, the exact people, in the exact time frame, did exactly as I described they would all the way down to the kicked-off shoes. He learned and experienced in that moment exactly what the ERG was and saw it in action. He signed up the very next day for my advanced music programming training. He watched that video over and over again.

The same is true for a comedian writing a joke. What it is, who its for, the exact placement in his set, and the exact results it should illicit.

The same ERG should be used when creating a business plan, goals, or operations. It is a tool that is part of a structure and a system that will serve you better than you will ever imagine as long as you have a clear understanding and commitment to it.

I don't remember setting out the business operations order in a thread last year but maybe I did an overview or simply touched on it.

When you say: "As it pertains to your business operations" do you mean that literally as in "selling from the stage" for example, or more figuratively as in your main offering as a business?

No not about selling from the stage but in creating something ( a performance element) congruent to and aligning and supporting your specific business operations and it's ERF. Creating our performance material (show) to best and properly serve your business operation goals including your business ERF as it pertains to your business expectations.

For example I once had a student (a mentalist) that was going to appear on a national the t.v. show here in the U.S.. He wanted to create an effect to perform on/with the very famous host that could serve several specific purposes. He wanted it to include the host. He wanted to be able to do the same performance piece in his live shows at schools, fairs and festivals. He wanted the effect to be able to build his following on social media as well as his emailing list. He only had 4-5 minute spot to perform this on the show.

So his ERF was to perform an effect on national T.V., that included the host but also kept the audience interested and involved the entire time from start to the climatic finish, that could be done in his live performances including for adults and kids, that would grow his following by moving people to his social media and emailing list, and to give everyone a free gift, in 5 minutes or less (I forget the exact amount of time as it was an odd number.)

We created the effect that did everything exactly as designed and expected and the results were exactly as expected. I believe his followers grew by 11,000+ that day and he added thousands of opt-ins to his free gift giveaway on his website. This is how you do it. He created a performance piece that aligned exactly with his business and his predetermined CTA (Call To Action). The performance piece was congruent exactly as desired with his business operations and CTA. It served a specific and legitimate purpose both in his show and in his business operations. One business component directly helping and lifting the other.

This is how you approach creating the perfect show for both your market and your business (not to mention your audience as you know exactly how they will respond before it ever happens.) Think of the comedian Gallagher, and the moment he brings out a watermelon. His ERG is strongly in place at all times. That carefully crafted routine allowed him to build a career on it. This is just one well-known example.

So that was the ERF, the goal, which was to create something that did exactly all of these things.

It is bad business to sell a bad show Tom.

It is bad business to be a salesman on stage using horrible things like an appearing cane and pathetic joke. None of that sells a show. Ultimately comes to that.

It is about what is being sold and how. Selling from the stage is hack.

It is hard to see if you are making our point or yours. We question your business practices from tip to tail. From the show to how you sell it. That is what you done seem to get. Now you jump on a thread that didn’t involve you just to argue. And you wonder why nobody wants to post here any more.

Related but not exactly the same .... My band is booked solely by word of mouth. We pass out biz cards and that's it. When we play a gig I know 100% that these people have heard about us and got a great review or they would never bother contacting us. We just don't have any problems because people know exactly what they are getting. More than half of our gigs are for parties that have hired us before. The rest are usually those who have heard from reputable friends. We pocket all the money we would have spent on advertising and we have a simple Facebook and Instagram page which cost nothing. We perform about once a week and that's about all we need or want. If I wanted more gigs I'd certainly use a bonafide agent. I intend to piggy back my new Mentalism show off the back of these groups and the venues they provide. If that doesn't work I'll advertise more. All situations are different.

Not the same? It sure is!

Slim I’ll tell you something most don’t believe if you’ll tolerate it. I’ve existed off almost nothing but word of mouth for decades on a very high level. I have no business cards even and haven’t forever. I have no dedicated web site even!

I fully understand the method you are speaking of with your band and I believe it is still there best out there.

Having a hot list of buyers who already like one thing you do is fantastic.

Not every method works for everyone. It is why is not encourage anyone to duplicate mine. I open new markets. Not the easiest way to go about it.

Anyhow yea it is related!

This sounds like cheating, everyone likes Aretha.

But seriously, how did you determine that this particular crowd would respond to it?
Did you read the crowd, or does everyone respond to Aretha that way?

Knowledge and experience. I know that sounds like a simplistic or even evasive answer but it is not. It is exactly how I know that.

It is not about Aretha or her song Respect. As a matter of fact every song a DJ carries or should have in his music library each have their own set of characteristics, that together with knowledge and experience of how to use it creates the exact ERG. Our DJs back then would regularly carry 20,000 songs which they would understand this for.

In the example I gave with Aretha it was a song but for a magician it is the exact same for a trick or effect you would use in your act. When you have the knowledge you will know exactly what that trick or effect should illicit as a response (provided it is performed and executed properly), that when combined with experience will allow you to know exactly how it will play and be received.

The experience comes in with knowing the lip of the song (amount of time from the beginning of the song until the vocals comes in), the tempo or BPMs (beats per minute), the genre, the age, the current environment, the time of day/night and within the event, the demographics of your audience, the market you are performing within, the equipment you are using, the tone of the room, lighting, audio dynamics (which is why it always kills me when I hear magicians say they use a Happy Amp as their "sound system"), alcohol consumption, dress, individual dynamics, performance conditions, audience dynamics, and all related psychological traits including impulse, triggers, auto-responses, group dynamics, sensory receptions and impact, and so much more.

Also it involves understanding human behavior. As a hypnotist and especially in dealing with the therapeutic components, this is crucial to each and every patient we see or subject we allow in our performances.

As I have told you before (I can't remember if it was here in a thread or in our PMs) I was a very big player in the wedding industry for a few decades and this was one area within the wedding market I knew very well. I have also said before market knowledge and education (much more than a general or surface-level knowledge) in any performance market (and geographical market) is essential. Without it you don't stand a chance. So this also is an important factor to all of this.

So as you can see there is muuuuuccccccch more in play here than an average person would see or every imagine or think of. THAT is what being a performer or entertainer is. It is not playing a song on an instrument or doing a trick you learn from a book or video, it's not about how good you do a double lift, it is the real understanding of EVERY element of that trick or song, how you are choosing to perform it, it's proper use and application, who you are performing it for, where you are performing it, and so many other behind the scenes and backend knowledge and intelligence.

You can on a surface level classify it as audience/crowd reading, but is rally so much more than that. It is THIS kind of thing that can separate you from others and any competition and create the positioning I always speak of.

But again, (I know this sounds like a broken record) it all starts in the Foundational level when creating your business (before you ever get to the performance) and the entire proper Foundational process which is crucial in any business, especially live entertainment.

I hope this helps and better clarifies.

It does help clarify.

There is one difference between a DJ and magician though, that DJ has
20,000 songs to choose from, a magician might not have that wiggle room.

certainly, a strolling magician will adjust on the fly. But when performing
a full structured show, there is less options to make those adjustments.

I almost never deviate from the planned sequence unless the circumstances demand it.
Obviously, you can raise energy, lower energy, direct your attention to one part of
of the audience, ad lib perhaps, but still, not drastic changes.

How would a magician go about deciding what would elicit the desired response
before they have even seen or tested the crowd?

Do you find that certain markets crowds tend to respond to the same things?

Thanks for the post by the way, interesting way of looking at it.

Experience. That is how you know.

Exactly but I believe you are looking at it opposite or incorrectly. Having 20,000 options at once is much more difficult. A magician has maybe what 5-7, maybe 8 effects in a show? Maybe 15-30 in their library or repertoire? This makes it much easier to work with and choose from and easier to determine. The problem is how magicians go about crafting and creating a show.

Most work only with tricks they like (me-based) as opposed to what works best for the situation, market, desired or necessary response, or business operations. They don't operate from "what do I need in this trick? "What is the desired response I need to illicit for my show, to my audience, and as it pertains to my business?"

They just go with what they prefer, what they like, and what they've seen others do (which is the worst reason to add something in their show.) Same for once the tricks are decided, then comes determining how it needs to be performed. "How will I need to perform this to create my predetermined, desired response? Do I want to perform it as funny or humorous? Mystical or amazing? Dramatic? Suspenseful? What do I need to do in my performance of the trick to have it make all of the desired elements that I require of it? (as in the example above about the national television show appearance)

Nope, most magicians are like "I like card tricks. I have spend countless hours working on these card tricks" so they then try to make the card tricks fit a not-at-all-thought-through spot in their show. This is the difference in a hobbyist or amateur and a working professional.

Spots in your show are prime real estate and should be treated as such.

It is not about the trick, it should be about what you need to achieve and accomplish within your show with each specific trick or effect. You should be creating an outline structure for you show systematically that meets all criteria - your performance market, venue, audience, and most of all your predetermined purpose of the show you are structuring. It is this point it should have nothing to do with any tricks themselves but rather the specified objective or outcome you are seeking. Do this for the first spot in your show. Then decide where you are going within your show. Choose the tool for the transition to your next spot. Then determine what the next spot is and requires and what in your library or resources can accomplish and achieve this. Create for this purpose. And you continue to do this throughout your show.

When you have done this you will have a proper congruent show. No selling from the stage will be needed, as everything you need to accomplish will already be included and built in. This will fuel your BOR if you have it, it will create the referrals you are seeking, separate yourself form any others in your markets, and most of all with lead to the ERF of your business model and operational system. It can also generate other aspects within your business such as press and media coverage, return bookings, value, features and benefits, and much more.

Every single thing in your show must have a purpose and achieve a desired result. If not it doesn't belong.

This is a properly created act for both a performance and a business perspective.

When done right, you already know before you ever take the stage exactly how your show will be received by the audience, the buyer or booker, and all their business aspects.

This has been the professional formula of many different types of entertainers and how they create their act, show, or performance.
It is not about personal preference, it is not about chance, it is not about what everyone else is doing, it's not about the tricks you like, its not about just having a bunny, or a popular illusion, or the latest-and-greatest trick release being discussed on the Magic Cafe, or something you saw someone else do on Fool Us, AGT, or on Youtube...its about what fits the ERF, your business model, your business operations, and your target market and audience.

I summed that up as experience. I thought the rest was self explanatory. lol.

It should be you're right. And you can't fake or rush experience. But I have seen many magicians that won't get this, so I offered a bit more in detail. Sadly, to some (many) it isn't self-explanatory.

With all due respect, that’s not always the case.

Experience is not always the best teacher because it can be limited and biased.
If you keep doing the same thing over and over, you begin believing it's the only way.
Experience is like word of mouth; it can work for or against you.

Tom

On the subject of crafting your show to the intended audience, I have a short story on the subject.

Near last Halloween I attended a carnival, I wasn't performing just attending, there was a magician
there that anyone who knows Arizona based magicians would recognize.

He's quite successful at what he's known for, kids parties.

This wasn't a kids party, it was an outdoor festival, with a wide demographic of folks. Probably
200-300 people watching. And he did a fine act. The problem is, it was a birthday show act essentially.
Complete with rocky raccoon and that wand that makes a kid into a rabbit.

This lead to around 15 minutes of nothing magical happening but "bits of business".

From his position he probably thought things were going well, he couldn't hear the mumbles in
the back of the crowd: "Is he ever going to do something?".

Probably not the best sort of stuff for that size and age range of folks.

Anyway, that experience seemed particularly relevant to the discussion.