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RNK Inner circle 7574 Posts 
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If it makes you feel feel better to think Hansen thinks like you do then perfect and hopefully you can move on now that everybody knows this and not have to keep repeating yourself.
Check out Bafflingbob.com
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RNK Inner circle 7574 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 25, 2023, tophatter wrote: I think some their products hit the US markets anywhere from 6 months to a year later? Though depending on the who's producing these, it may be possibly made in Taiwan I wonder how many they can produce and it what speed?
Check out Bafflingbob.com
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Roberto W Inner circle 1257 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 25, 2023, videoman wrote: I know what you’re saying, but he could have simply manufactured the gimmick so it had a loose fit when the 2 come together. They would still ‘lock’ or hold together and not separate, but that you could easily be able to separate. If he wanted to he could have done that and the easiest way would simply be to use less powerful magnets or even created the shell slightly bigger or insert slightly smaller. If this was manufactured this way then the fear would be when spectators looking at it could possibly see and feel the loose fit in the nest. I’m 99% sure he would have also wanted it to be able to be handled freely/examined so nothing could be found. This was not a given as it’s being made out, as like I said he could if he wanted to have made it so it wasn’t examinable. But for good reason he chose for it to be the perfect fit, locking and examinable. |
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tonsofquestions Inner circle 1813 Posts
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On Oct 25, 2023, Roberto W wrote: It's mostly the same, except you've reached a different conclusion. The "common terms as locked but not examinable" only applies for the coin version because of the rotational symmetry. I specifically called out "because it spins" which you conveniently left out of my quote. No spinning on the keys. Locking and examinable is the same thing as locking when there is no possibility of rotation or wobble. This set of keys has no press fit. It is purely magnetic. (And there's no point in doing both.) We were told as much because there's no bang ring. The fact that it only takes a magnet to separate means that they are easily (and quickly) separated. There's no other possibility here. It wasn't a "choice" it was a free result from all the other work. And none of the coin uniques (or magnetic S&S) sets I've ever seen had sloppy tolerances that you can see gaps in it. That's not just unexaminable, it's undisplayable. And bad craftsmanship. (Which Hanson is not.) Even hide-a-key can be shown on both sides, though it doesn't lock. These are thousandths of an inch difference we're talking about. |
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 1999 Posts
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Calling a press fit coin that separates with a bang ring examinable is interesting. Unless you got fortunate when pinching the coin together, the front and back half of the coin will NOT be aligned correctly, which any coin expert would immediately notice so I would be careful about saying inspectable in that case. If I remember correctly, even those press-fit coins spin with a little help. The fit has to be loose enough to separate with a bang ring so the coin isn't rotation-proof while nested.
Quote: On Oct 25, 2023, tonsofquestions wrote:
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin |
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videoman Inner circle 6778 Posts
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On Oct 25, 2023, Roberto W wrote: Well yes, he could have made a horribly machined version that would only lock but not be examinable. But no creator would ever purposely do that unless they were only interested in trying to make a quick buck and even that wouldn’t work because making even a very poorly machined product can be quite an expensive investment. First off, nobody except maybe cheap overseas rip offs use such weak magnets that the item will separate that easily. If not using another magnet as tool it can be quite difficult to remove an insert from a shell when locked magnetically. It’s not common that props open so easily if they are intended to lock, unless again, it’s a poorly made rip off. Secondly, please quit implying that it is common that irregularly shaped objects such as keys will sometimes lock but not also be examinable. It’s simply not the case, and please don’t use your Coin Unique example to try and prove your point because (as has been stated a dozen times but you continue to ignore) coins are round and they can rotate, keys cannot rotate. Can you give me one example of a shell and insert which isn’t round that locks magnetically that is not examinable? Further, to use this argument to somehow try and prove your general point that audiences almost always want to examine props but are simply too polite to ask, by implying that Hanson must feel that same way too which is why he went the extra mile to make his key not only lock but examinable as well, is quite an absurd stretch on your part. You’re trying to make it seem like a respected creator feels the same way you do when none of us have any idea if he agrees with your theories or not. |
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videoman Inner circle 6778 Posts
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On Oct 25, 2023, Kaliix wrote: LOL, I was wondering how long it would be until the two sides of a coin not aligning came into the discussion on examinability. 
Actually in many routines you can get the two sides to align with only a small amount of practice. But in truth, how many “coin experts” are you going to run into? And even then it’s not guaranteed they would notice immediately. Plus, you can very often get a clue that they’re a coin expert from the get go so you know it’s probably best not to have them look closely at your gaff. I’m only speculating on that because I’ve honestly never run into a coin expert that I’m aware of. A well made gaff shouldn’t be “loose enough to separate with a bang ring”, it should be as tight as possible. The press fit gaffs that I’ve owned there was no way you could rotate the insert at all, and good luck bouncing it around in a glass to separate it. They can (and should) be amazingly tight (i.e. precision made) and still separate with a bang ring although it may take a couple good bangs to do it. Ok, back to keys now and the good news is that a key will always align properly in case you run into a key expert.
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Nathan Alexander Inner circle 2031 Posts
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I see it’s for preorder, so this may be a stupid question, but when do they ship?
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tonsofquestions Inner circle 1813 Posts
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On Oct 26, 2023, Kaliix wrote: Yes. If you look at any gimmick long and hard enough, it will not be perfect. You will notice a line, a seam or some kind of discoloration. Someone might notice the weight is off. Or that it doesn't ping properly when flicked. But it will be OK to a casual inspection. Some people might say that no one tries spinning the faces of coins, so that rotation isn't a problem. I think it's relatively easy to do by accident and a light touch. On the other hand, I think most folks aren't aware about the relative orientation of coin faces. Even those that are won't know _exactly_ where the top/bottom are, or whether a particular foreign or uncommon denomination is medallion or coin orientation. And you should try out a press-fit S&S again next time you have one on hand - because your memory is incorrec. I just tested with mine, and I could not turn it at all. The torque required is much too high for what my finger can produce. The magnetic one I also had? Spins easily. any looser and it might spin just by shaking. Both the same manufacturer. |
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Hanson Chien New user Taipei City, Taiwan 57 Posts
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On Oct 26, 2023, Nathan Alexander wrote: The following information is mentioned in the FAQ on our website: We have a limited number of early batches available and will begin shipping them out on December 1, 2023, on a first-come, first-serve basis. If your order doesn't fall within the early batch, don't worry. We understand your eagerness to explore the possibilities of our Scotch and Whiskey. We have partnered with a leading logistics provider to ensure that your order will be delivered to your door, at the latest, one week before Christmas. |
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geggy Elite user Brighton UK 485 Posts
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For those asking,
It went on sale last night uk time, pre-order for those that signed up on whiskeymiracle site. As far as I'm aware these are shipping in a few weeks and they assure you it will be in your hands before Christmas. 2 versions are available: Standard and the Deluxe version which comes with duplicate ungimmicked keys. Both discounted for those that order before or around the middle of November. Just ordered the Deluxe. Worldwide shipping $15, which is very fair. Hope this helps Gerry |
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pierre888 Regular user 113 Posts
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Just ordered
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 1999 Posts
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How many coin experts indeed! They are just coins. Even if you ask people to examine them, they just typically hold it, look at it and turn it over but that's it. Most muggles have little to no knowledge of coins. The younger your crowd, the less they have experienced actual "change" ie the extra left after you buy something given to you in some form of coins.
This whole idea of everything must be examinable puzzles me. Routine in the handing of something out if you must but unless one is going for a "test conditions" type of effect, there is little point. Quote: On Oct 26, 2023, videoman wrote:
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin |
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Roberto W Inner circle 1257 Posts
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[quote]On Oct 26, 2023, Kaliix wrote:
This whole idea of everything must be examinable puzzles me. [quote] Not everything and every prop has to made examinable, it literally depends on the effect and routine (which I’ve said before and again as said before, I use props/gimmicks that are not examinable). But creators who chose to design the gimmicks to be locking/examinable/only the magician know how to open etc, have purposely done so for the obvious reason, which obviously is sadly not obvious to some. |
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videoman Inner circle 6778 Posts
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On Oct 26, 2023, Roberto W wrote: That’s truly hilarious! Because I believe that’s exactly what is meant by having to get in the last word. It seems the vast majority of cafe members have the good sense to simply ignore you and that’s probably the best idea so I think I will join them now. |
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LeoTheJet Regular user 174 Posts
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I certainly agree, though I don’t think it’s unwise to practice and prepare for the toughest, most cynical crowd / spectator. This is my mentality, so I make sure to cover all bases, all switches, all ditches, etc upon the occasion I need to shut a difficult layman up. That said, it’s rare that I need to utilize those moves. Most laymen are too astonished at what they just saw (and usually end up examining the wrong thing anyway).
A bit off topic, but I practiced an invisible bill switch for months, so it would appear that a borrowed dollar is indeed the one they sign, I tear up, etc. I’ve never had to actually use the bill switch, as most people don’t pay that close of attention. A simple look into their eyes as you ask them a question will allow for anything you need to do in your hands. Therefore, while I may never need to hand out the key, having that option is basically just an added bonus. |
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videoman Inner circle 6778 Posts
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I too like the idea of a locking key but in a perfect world you would have the option of buying a non-locking version as well.
People have asked “why would you want a non-locking version?” Simply because there many, many things you can do with a non-locking version which allow for more options in creativity. Would you want a coin shell and insert to always lock? Of course not because so many great routines have been developed where secretly un-nesting the shell and insert are key components to making the effect possible. Ages ago I had a locking $1.35 gaff coin set. I ended up converting it into a non-locking set because it was so simple to merely switch out the gaff coin for an ungaffed duplicate which also then allowed for an instant reset. So although I love the fact that the S&W key locks I would also love a matching non-locking version in the future just to open up more possibilities. Assuming of course that the current locking key cannot be converted to non-locking via DIY. Exploring options is one of the reasons I ordered both a Deluxe and Standard version. |
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ArtIn Inner circle 1707 Posts
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On Oct 26, 2023, Hanson Chien wrote: 149,45$ to just get one ungimmicked key with the set is clearly not the best price. |
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NicholasD25 Veteran user 382 Posts
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Get it while they’re offering the intro price.
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warren Inner circle uk 4195 Posts
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The shipping boosts up the cost making me want to wait until UK dealers stock it.
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Posted: Oct 25, 2023 11:02 pm 