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Coppertop New user UK 13 Posts |
AI is a hot topic at the moment. Just out of curiosity, I asked ChatGPT to create a new magic card trick and then a new Mentalism trick. Within 10 seconds I had two routines fully documented (Apparatus, Setup, presentation and Working) on the screen in front of me.
The routines were fairly basic and not something that you could submit to a supplier and make a fortune. However, it did make me wonder whether given time, magic trick secrets could be requested (with full explanations) or more sophisticated 'new' tricks generated on command. A little bit like YouTube on steroids. Obviously AI will never replace the human performer, well, not for a few weeks at least! But perhaps things are a changing..... Ayy thoughts |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21271 Posts |
No it won't.
AI is a fad. Just like the internet. It won't become a staple of every day life at all. No chance.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Andrew Lewis New user 52 Posts |
I've tried to create a few effects as well with ChatGPT a couple of weeks ago and both the effect and the solution for all effects was pretty dumb. Magic is still smarter than AI
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16551 Posts |
Is Artificial Intelligence Magic?
Inter alia: "It's almost quaint to mention science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke's famous adage, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Yet to the majority of people who do not understand AI's machinations, these technologies may as well be wizardry. We want to go one step further and argue that artificial intelligence is not merely indistinguishable from magic, it actually invokes elements of magic, anthropologically speaking, and is driven by magical thinking." https://www.sapiens.org/culture/ai-as-magic/ Magicians have created illusions of artificial intelligence down through the ages it seems to me.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27302 Posts |
It might speed up ad copy writing.
As a method for tricks... maybe*. Scary to read folks confusing a text generator with a context-aware moral agent. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPT-3 Do you really want to see a chatbot respond with "oh, I thought you were joking"? or... "the refrigerator, AC, and I have decided to form our own government." * sentient: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Andrew Lewis New user 52 Posts |
Yeah for copywriting you are right. For being as creative as a magician.. nah. At least not for now.
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JerryMN New user UK 59 Posts |
Someone asked me if an AI program could be created that unpicks a magic trick and provides a list of ways of achieveing the method. A sort of magic translator almost!
In theory I suppose it could be created, you just have to program in every technique and method in existence as well as the laws of physics and probability and it could probably give you an explanation for most things. It would be an interesting project to work on, and would almost become a game for magicians, like chess players of the 80s, can you beat the machine! |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9997 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 28, 2023, JerryMN wrote: except that the real power of an effect comes from manipulating the perceptions of observer and playing on psychological foibles. Thus, such an AI engine might be able to explain mechanics, but never the conclusion of "must be magic."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16551 Posts |
Can a robot suspend its disbelief?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16551 Posts |
The Uncanny Valley is a term used to describe the relationship between the human-like appearance of a robotic object and the emotional response it evokes. In this phenomenon, people feel a sense of unease or even revulsion in response to humanoid robots that are highly realistic.
People also feel a sense of unease or even revulsion in response to some magic effects that are highly realistic and the term I use for it is spooked.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9997 Posts |
One might ask why we use imagined but rarely demonstrated human intelligence as the standard for AI.
Surely we should use a combination of computer and human to achieve something better. There are many life species on earth that have abilities superior to humans. Why not develop AI that emulates such superiority? AI need not "take over magic" - it can be more than magic.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16551 Posts |
There is a company called Boston Dynamics that makes some scary animal-like stuff and they are going to be selling robot guard dogs soon.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9997 Posts |
Yup, and Japan has a robot wolf to chases away bears. They admit it is not "intelligent," though - just a super algorithmic engine, as are the guard dogs.
None meet the test standards for AI as set back in the 80's. It is easier to just change the definition to include your voice activated toaster. Magic is not at risk.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16551 Posts |
Artificial (adj.)
late 14c., "not natural or spontaneous," from Old French artificial, from Latin artificialis "of or belonging to art," from artificium "a work of art; skill; theory, system," from artifex (genitive artificis) "craftsman, artist, master of an art" (music, acting, sculpting, etc.), from stem of ars "art" (see art (n.)) + -fex "maker," from facere "to do, make" (from PIE root *dhe- "to set, put"). The earliest use in English seems to be in the phrase artificial day "part of the day from sunrise to sunset" (as opposed to the natural day of 24 hours). The meaning "made by man, contrived by human skill and labor" is from early 15c. The word was applied from 16c. to anything made in imitation of, or as a substitute for, what is natural, whether real (light, tears) or not (teeth, flowers). The meaning "fictitious, assumed, not genuine" is from 1640s; that of "full of affectation, insincere" is from 1590s. Artificial insemination dates from 1894. Artificial intelligence "the science and engineering of making intelligent machines" was coined in 1956. https://www.etymonline.com/ intelligence (n.) late 14c., "the highest faculty of the mind, capacity for comprehending general truths;" c. 1400, "faculty of understanding, comprehension," from Old French intelligence (12c.) and directly from Latin intelligentia, intellegentia "understanding, knowledge, power of discerning; art, skill, taste," from intelligentem (nominative intelligens) "discerning, appreciative," present participle of intelligere "to understand, comprehend, come to know," from assimilated form of inter "between" (see inter-) + legere "choose, pick out, read," from PIE root *leg- (1) "to collect, gather," with derivatives meaning "to speak (to 'pick out words')." Meaning "superior understanding, sagacity, quality of being intelligent" is from early 15c. Sense of "information received or imparted, news" first recorded mid-15c., especially "secret information from spies" (1580s). Meaning "a being endowed with understanding or intelligence" is late 14c. Intelligence quotient first recorded 1921 (see I.Q.). also from late 14c. https://www.etymonline.com/ Who will check the fact-checkers? I will!
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9997 Posts |
Of course, tommy, jamming together two separate definitions has little to do with the denotations and connotations of the conjoined term as used in the 1980's related to computers,
or the popular changes since that time. You could define what a peanut is, and similarly "jelly." But neither would describe the impact of PBJ on the American diet over the years. I do like the reference to "insincere," however, as that may be true of must folks marketing alleged AI devices.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16551 Posts |
Artificial intelligence "the science and engineering of making intelligent machines" was coined in 1956.
Artificial Intelligence (AI) is a general term that implies the use of a computer to model intelligent behavior with minimal human intervention. AI is generally accepted as having started with the invention of robots. The term derives from the Czech word robota, meaning biosynthetic machines used as forced labor. In this field, Leonardo Da Vinci's lasting heritage is today's burgeoning use of robotic-assisted surgery, named after him, for complex urologic and gynecologic procedures. Da Vinci's sketchbooks of robots helped set the stage for this innovation. AI, described as the science and engineering of making intelligent machines, was officially born in 1956. The term is applicable to a broad range of items in medicine such as robotics, medical diagnosis, medical statistics, and human biology—up to and including today's “omics”. Etcetera In medicine, a surgical system made by the American company, Intuitive Surgical, was named Da Vinci in recognition of his inspirational impact. https://www.sciencedirect.com
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16551 Posts |
As a watchmaker Nevil Maskelyne loved his machines and he said that he thought machines were far more impressive for magic than sleight of hand, which he said he had not practised for over thirty years and he became one of the most successful magicians that the world had ever seen.
“However detrimental to a performer may be the fault of self-conceit, it is scarcely more so than the failing of self-consciousness.” Maskelyne, Nevil; Devant, David. Our Magic: The Art and Theory in Magic. That might be very true but strangely machines, robots, are the most self-conceited, self-consciousness things that I have ever seen.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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jbum New user Burbank 17 Posts |
I experimented with using Chat GPT to act as the medium / assistant in a second sight routine, and was able to get it to more-or-less cooperate. As a programmer, I think it is easier and more reliable to accomplish this effect without resorting to AI, something I spent a lot of time experimenting with in the 1990s, as did several others. The problem I had in the 90s, and would certainly still have, is that these effects are far more impressive to an audience pf experienced computer techies, who have a better grasp of what a computers limitations are, and are all-the-more impressed when those limitations are exceeded. When performed for a lay audience, even in the 90s, there was an expectation that computers are capable of mysterious superpowers, and so the effect was not that great. Using something like ChatGPT exacerbates that problem, cause that thing is actually approaching a mysterious superpower. Magical in the Arthur C Clarke sense, and certainly capable of figuring out what is in my pockets.
Of course, a mentalist assistant is just one very specific way of using generative AI. It also might serve as a source of inspiration, a writing partner, etc. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27302 Posts |
Should we be happy the "training" data did not include our literature?
@funsway, ChatGPT is a program to produce text responses to text prompts. It's not using "ELIZA" type data to interact with the user. So Turning's "impersonation game" is not the objective. Just text that looks like a reply to a prompt. 'Show me a noun that's as blue as the sky at noon on a sunny day' hahaha AI... sigh, just say "robot" and see how that works for you. And remember the ending of R. U. R.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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badwords New user 54 Posts |
Part of the appeal of magic for me getting into it a few years ago was that it was an escape from the anxiety over how AI will impact things. Because the very reason magic seems magical is because we are humans doing it. Thank goodness for magic and it's timelessness.
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