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supremefiction Loyal user 294 Posts 
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I read that it has been found (in part due to math/magic people like Persi Diaconis) that seven riffle shuffles thoroughly mix a deck of 52 cards.
There must be a shorter sequence to thoroughly mix a deck of 52 cards. For example, after a couple of shuffles strip out a center packet, throw it on top, and continue shuffling. I imagine someone in Las Vegas, or perhaps Steve Forte, has figured this out. Any pointers to sources would be very much appreciated. Thanks. |
hcs Special user Germany, Magdeburg 508 Posts
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You may trust the casino rules:
1. scramble/wash 2. tabled riffle shuffle 3. tabled riffle shuffle 4. stripping/boxing 5. tabled riffle shuffle 6. one-handed cut |
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hcs Special user Germany, Magdeburg 508 Posts
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In "Scarne on Cards," John Scarne strongly recommends to G.I. Joe the Scarne Cut after the opponent's shuffles to minimize his chances in a crooked play.
1. Pull a block of cards out of the center of the deck. 2. place them on top. 3. Do it again and again in an odd number. 4. Regularly cut the deck. On page 28, you will find Scarne's recommendation for shuffling in a private game: Riffle, cut, riffle, ... Then you make a few bad plays in a row, just mutter, "That's all for today." |
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supremefiction Loyal user 294 Posts
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Very helpful,thanks. I was sure the people here would know this.
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hcs Special user Germany, Magdeburg 508 Posts
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My pleasure!
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1tepa1 Inner circle 1282 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 25, 2023, hcs wrote: I feel like if you are allowed by the other players to basically give multiple cuts after the cards are shuffled, yes that would destroy any stack. But if you can give the deck five cuts, why not just give the deck one riffle shuffle followed by a cut? If the cards are riffle shuffled and then cut, that will reliably destroy any stack. |
BigTexas New user San Diego, CA 51 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 25, 2023, hcs wrote: In a procedure like this, is it necessary to alternate the cards that finish on the top and bottom of a riffle shuffle. To elaborate, if you cut the top stock to the right for a riffle shuffle, do you need to ensure that at least one card from the right is the first card to hit the table and at least one card from the left finishes at the top of the shuffle? (Hope my description is clear) |
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1tepa1 Inner circle 1282 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 31, 2023, BigTexas wrote: Yes, the top and the bottom cards should change for obvious reasons. |
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hcs Special user Germany, Magdeburg 508 Posts
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Quote: It doesn't matter. Don't pay attention. Do the riffle shuffle tightly and randomly.
On Jan 31, 2023, BigTexas wrote: |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16552 Posts
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Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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iamslow Inner circle Proffessional Slacker 2001 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 19, 2023, tommy wrote: Are you smoking crack again Tommy??? 
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16552 Posts
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But I shall be sober in the morning, and you, Iamslow, will still be a Luddite. Mind you, we in England are a little old-fashioned ourselves: we still call a Wash/Scramble shuffle, a Chemmy shuffle, because originally it was how croupiers shuffled the six decks in Chemin De Fer/Chemmy games. Today the croupiers might use pre-shuffled decks and shuffle machines, etcetera, whether the Luddites like it or not.
As for the riffle, I would not argue with the Big Texan: The “riffle” shuffle is done in four steps with the top card of each half of the deck changing sides when you shuffle. The dealer who simply riffles the original top cards back on top needs watching.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Mr. Bones Veteran user 324 Posts
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I wasn't going to say anything, as I thought Tommy was just poking fun ... but ye old shufflerbox doesn't really shuffle very well at all, as a quick press of the "STOP" button on the video will demonstrate (for both decks of cards) as he fans them after the "shuffle".
I think a more appropriate term for the final product might be "slightly mixed".
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"! |
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5ggg New user 90 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 25, 2023, hcs wrote: I thought his cut was packet from center to top, then a normal cut? |
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hcs Special user Germany, Magdeburg 508 Posts
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Quote: No Sir, Scarne describes in his "Scarne shuffle" the shuffle process only, not the following cut.
On Feb 22, 2023, 5ggg wrote: On page 16, you will find "The Scarne Cut" I gave you above. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16552 Posts
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Say no more!
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16552 Posts
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It has been said, very justly, that every virtue is, as it were, a middle course between two opposite vices. N.M. Therefore, then, the best way to use this Shuffle Box might well be to first give the cards a Chemmy Shuffle before putting them into the shuffle box to shuffle them: that would get one a more random mix. It would be a compromise between the Luddites and the Technorati and we could call it the Clockwork Orange shuffle.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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iamslow Inner circle Proffessional Slacker 2001 Posts
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Tommy, Is that what you use at your "private" poker room?? I wanted to use it too, but I couldn't afford one so I made one with a tupperware!!
 It works like a charm and its even waterproof!!
your friend, iamslow
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16552 Posts
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That's really clever! And perhaps with a Tupperware box at the card table, one could tell the Gambling Commission if and when they raid that "All these people here are close, intermate friends of ours, who are merely indulging themselves in a bit of after Tupperware party fun."
We do have a pair of dice shakers made from Cole & Mason Salt & Pepper Pots like these: https://www.theoldcinema.co.uk/cole-maso......970.html They fit into our old Backgammon set. The MIXTERY shuffle box was only a Kick-Starter idea six years ago that failed: as far as we know, the things never became products, offered to the public: we think they have been put on the shelf so to speak.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
Posted: Jan 24, 2023 08:18 pm 