|
|
|
|||
Daniel Ulzen.jpg "View Profile") Elite user Berlin/Germany 495 Posts 
|
Some websites report that Burling Hull got the copyright for the trick Svengali Deck in 1909 (see below). Did Burling Hull really have the copyright for this trick and/or did anyone ever have the rights to this trick?
'John Booth, in Linking Ring, Vol. 70 No. 7, July 1990, p. 59, wrote, “Among his [Hull's] creations during this period was a deck he called 'Improved Cards Mysterious.' Apparently it passed into the hands of the Boston magic dealer, W. D LeRoy. Seeing its possibilities, LeRoy marketed it in 1909 under the title of 'Svengali Deck,' a name suggested by an employee of his, Herman Hanson, who would later attain fame as a vaudeville magician and Thurston's stage manager…. As a 19-year-old lad, on the ninth of March 1909 the trick deck was recorded in the Office of the Register of Copyrights, Washington, D.C., as 'Improved Cards Mysterious,' Class A. XXc. No. 233032, the 'rights' going to Burling Hull, Brooklyn, New York. He was only 15 when he invented this many-purposed deck.' https://www.conjuringcredits.com/doku.ph......ali_deck |
the Sponge Inner circle Atlanta 2780 Posts
|
So, really you can't copyright a trick. You can copyright a set of directions, which is really what probably happened/is meant. Copyright is usually life of author plus 70 years. At this point the basic long and short deck is public domain. Every magic dealer and wholesaler has been making their own for years now. magicians don't really care about rights anyway.
|
Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 1999 Posts
|
A Svengali deck would be covered under a design patent which, "may be granted to anyone who invents or discovers any new and useful process, machine, article of manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof;"
A patent lasts only 20 years so manufacture one all you want, it is perfectly legal. https://www.uspto.gov/patents/basics
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin |
|
Nikodemus Inner circle 1196 Posts
|
You need to be careful with the phrase "design patent". Unfortunately the word "design" is ambiguous - it can mean how something works, or how something looks.
A Design Patent refers to the appearance of an object - "Ornamental designs of jewelry, furniture, beverage containers and computer icons are examples of objects that are covered by design patents." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent This is different from what we normally think of as a patent - which is for an invention. [Many countries avoid the phrase "design patent" because of the potential confusion. EG. Here in the UK, its is called registering a design, not a design patent] Patents (for inventions) are very expensive to register (and I think you have to pay annual renewal fees throughout its 20 year life. So it is highly unlikely any magic trick would be patented. I am pretty sure I read somewhere that Copyright includes performance rights. So if you write a play, no one can reprint it without your permission - and they can't perform it either. This is probably what would be relevant to magic tricks. |
|
the Sponge Inner circle Atlanta 2780 Posts
|
Quote:
On Jan 19, 2023, Nikodemus wrote: Indeed. plus, the secret must be revealed in the patent. However, there are several that are. Someone made a book of them. Tenyo has a few, and the famous John Gaughan one, of course. Not to had to find these days, and pretty interesting. Yep, you can copyright plays. That's how Teller protects his famous "Shadow Rose" effect. s |
|
the Sponge Inner circle Atlanta 2780 Posts
|
This is actually more interesting than I thought. That magic site says "copyright," yet other sites say "patent." Online doesn't go back that far, but I did see a patent for the deck 1923 (which is long expired).
|
|
Antera New user 20 Posts
|
Its confusing , copyright used to cover objects.. in that you could be sued for infringement of the copyright that subsisted in the engineering drawings of the product( hence a long time protection for a product). This was used mainly on industrial designs. This was replaced by unregistered Design Right that gave anyone with an original industrial design 10 years rights t0 prevent copyright being used for three dimensional objects ( for Europe anyway). Copyright was being abused.
I think is USA it may be different as I see sqabbles about copyright weekly on different aspects I think Design Patent is used as the wrong term for Registered Design ( designs that have appeal to the eye and have a certificate , ,ike fancy steam iron) If you launched a Tenyo type plastic gadget you would automatically get 10 years ( 5 years monopoly ) design right without registering anything in the UK if you are based here |
|
Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 1999 Posts
|
Yeah, I reread the whole patent thing to get it straight in my head and then miscalled the patent. A Svengali deck falls under a UTILITY patent as it has to do with a new article of manufacture. I had the correct definition but the wrong term out front.
Any Utility patent that covers the Svengali deck has long since expired. Sorry for the confusion. Quote: On Jan 19, 2023, Nikodemus wrote:
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin |
|
Paul24243 New user 51 Posts
|
Is it then the trick or the instructions which the patent is for ?
|
|
Daniel Ulzen Elite user Berlin/Germany 495 Posts
|
Hello Paul24243, if I understand everything correctly, the patent expired a long time ago. So anyone can produce the trick in any way. Instructions are not protected by a patent, but by copyright. So you are not allowed to use drawings or texts from instructions. However, ideas in instructions, for example a specific performance idea, are not protected by copyright.
|
Posted: Jan 19, 2023 06:34 am 