If one simply did the impossible in effect it might be magic but why would that be our magic?

Because the impossible is impossible, yes? And Our Magic is the art of making the possible look impossible.

If one simply did the impossible in effect it might be magic but why would that be our magic, as opposed to the act of a charlatan?

It is only charlatanry if the performer falsely claims to have special abilities to gain profit/power.

If a person could actually had the ability to do something considered to be physically impossible, it would be science for them and not magic. Not Charlatanry either.
Of course, we have 'non-possible' and 'not possible' alternatives of what many consider impossible for them personally, and demonstrating it can be entertaining. Contact juggling as an example.

Not sure where your "impossible in effect" fits in as "effect" is what the observer perceives, which is biased by experience and expectations. They own magic, not us.

Providing a "real experience of magic" is different from offering "an experience of real magic."

As Al Schneider noted (paraphrased), "I create astonishment. Whether or not it is perceived as magic is up to the observer."

I think "astonishment," as Al talks about it, is the experience of the impossible itself--"No Way!"

The proofs that the magician offer are enough to convince the spectator that he can come up with "no possible" explanation for what he has seen. The spectator's choice to assign magic, trickery, alchemy, spirits, alien technology is, of course, up to them.

They have to respond to the experience as if they had actually encountered the impossible. Their emotions, racing thoughts and excited imagination would be the same had they experienced the impossible in real life, except for the comforting knowledge that it is a magic show. Take that away, and the experience becomes much more threatening.

Charlatans often astonish people by performing the impossible in effect.

I think it is the nature of our entertainment, not the nature of our magic, that conveys to our audience that what we are offering is art, as opposed to something true.

Whit. - "Their emotions, racing thoughts and excited imagination would be the same had they experienced the impossible in real life"

Given the shift away from authentic experience to vicarious ones for youth in recent decades, can we make valid assumptions
about any of these key factors? For me, most folks today are completely lacking in imagination and valid emotions,
relying instead on multiple choice selection and emulating some movie star.

In addition, their "reality" is a conclusion of "electronic gizmo" or "weird science," with "magic" reserved for cosmetic products and sports antics.

So, what does an earnest magician do to condition/prepare an unknown audience for a "must be magic" response?

Your famous "wink" can only work if they are not staring at an electronic device or impaired by some substance.

Thanks for the quotable lines above.

The incredible assertion put to the audience during the entertainment stage, is often created by exaggerating to absurdity some real or plausible phenomena. It is this entirely irrational nonsense which is the impossible stuff, which must be proved by entirely rational means, in order to create the simultaneity of opposites, which is both entirely irrational and entirely rational at the time, which we call the Twilight Zone.

[quote]On Oct 31, 2023, Pop Haydn wrote:


I think, the rapid method undoubtedly has the advantage of giving the spectators plenty for their money.

[quote]On Nov 1, 2023, tommy wrote:


The more powerful a trick is magically, the less presentation will be needed.

[quote]On Nov 2, 2023, Pop Haydn wrote:


If the audience knows you are a magician, is paying attention and has an expectation that something impossible is about to occur.

Great for an audience buying tickets to see a known performer do his thing.

For folks with little experience with live magic or easily distracted, more presentation or engagement may be needed.

As you noted above, if some components are missing, fear may set in instead of astonishment.

[quote]On Nov 2, 2023, funsway wrote:



I have not found that to be true. I have made a living at magic for more than fifty years, and I have never seen the problems you seem to encounter with contemporary audiences. I am inclined to think there is something other than the audience that is the problem.

Yes, Whit, YOU as a known and famous performer with reputation and audiences expecting magic to occur do not encounter a problem.

I an glad that you can attract such audiences and make a living at it. Other are not so fortunate and attempt o perform before casaul audiences about which little is known.

I never said that I personally encounter this "problem" or consider it a problem as much as an opportunity -
or consideration to learn something of audience expectations before selecting an effect to perform.

It is easy to entertain people with surprise or puzzles - magic, not so much. "Strong magic, even less."

I solve the challenge by only perforing effect based on what is learned about audience expectations.

There is plenty of evidence related to the decline in people's attention span, experience with live magic, response to distractions/interruptions and addiction to entertainment or media devices.

That is a problem for all attempts at communications including performance magic. Most seem to prefer avoiding strong magic in favor of entertainment of skill demonstration.

One cannot make the same assumption about an unknown group of potential observers today as decades ago.

First and foremost, what is needed is the suspension of disbelief, for without the suspension of disbelief, one does not have theatrical magic at all. The main thing that calls upon an audience to suspend their disbelief, is the nonsensical nature of the entertainment.

Secondly, a magical act needs to be balanced to win both hearts and minds: the irrational entertainment wins their hearts, while the rational magic experiment wins their minds.

Thirdly, some magicians these days place no importance on the entertainment and all importance on the magic, because these days, we live in a technocracy.

Magicians ought to place most importance on the Twilight Zone. It is no coincidence that creative people are at their best when half asleep and half awake.