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warren Inner circle uk 4195 Posts 
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For sometime now I see that mentalism effects with die seem quite popular amongst magicians from Die-Cipher, Multi Dimensional by Craig of ProMystic, Mental Dice by Marc-Antoine etc and Richard Osterlinds Whispering Die which strangely enough I've only just come across.
Now the effect does appeal to me as die are something that everyone is familiar with, they pack small, are easy to do ie no real skill required and from what I've read all seem to have an instant reset, however and this is obviously down to the performer but I've yet to see what I would call an entertaining routine with them. Perhaps this is because I'm a magician and not a mentalist but to me " hide the die in your hand so that I can't see it and look at the top number " then you reveal it just doesn't seem entertaining, below is a typical performance, now I have nothing against the magician in the clip he may be a great entertainer however this certainly wasn't what I would call entertaining, strong yes but entertaining ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NAbxaE80L0 That said I'll put my hands up and say that I don't own one of these effects so can't say how well they go down in the real world and by that I mean in loud environments which usually are poorly lit for paying spectators as well as skeptical friends but to me there doesn't seem any wow factor ie I'm use to routines that build in the sense they have a beginning, a middle and an end where as these type of routines don't have what I would call a climax do feel free to chime in with your thoughts and feel free to enlighten me. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21271 Posts
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I was bored out of my mind just watching.
It is not about the microcosm of the effect. What did he do to lead up to it? What followed? It is not about any one effect being judged as a stand alone thing, it is about how he used it and why. But my thought is that I have 100 things that I would do before even thinking about this effect. What my main point is that taking one effect out of context and trying to judge the efficacy of it might not be too fair.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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warren Inner circle uk 4195 Posts
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Danny I completely agree with you, it just surprises me that every time I see these type of effects performed they're all basically performed just as in the link I provided ie with no real presentation.
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Senor Fabuloso Inner circle 1243 Posts
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Many in the general public find mentalism and magic for that matter boring. In the circus scale of importance, magic is at the bottom just above fire eater. The entertainment industry in generally looks down at magicians. With all that, we have to be that much more entertaining to make a living in this art. If that's the goal?
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.
If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL! |
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jimgerrish Inner circle East Orange, NJ 3209 Posts
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Warren:
Die-Confundus by Professor Spellbinder, in which you know which number will roll up LAST after a spectator rolls a die again and again and records each of the six sides as they roll up on top. Spellbinder makes a Bank Night routine from that, but you can come up with other routines as well once you know the secret of the dice. In a similar manner, "Dominos Vos Biscuits", also by Spellbinder, allows you to match randomly chosen dominoes with a spectator. I would PM the links to each, but your PM box is all filled up and Senor Fabuloso will have a conniption if I mention it here.
Jim Gerrish
magicnook@yahoo.com https://www.magicnook.com Home of The Wizards' Journals: https://magicnook.com/wizardsTOC.htm |
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Senor Fabuloso Inner circle 1243 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 28, 2018, jimgerrish wrote: LOL That's a good one.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.
If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL! |
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warren Inner circle uk 4195 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 28, 2018, jimgerrish wrote: Thanks for your input Jim I managed to find a performance of Die-Confundus by Professor Spellbinder ( link provided https://vimeo.com/57660568 ) whilst I liked the premise boy was it long winded and obviously not the best performance, I presume this is the same routine performed my mark Shortland ( link provided https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt1oAxucwJw ) which was far more entertaining and if it is one and the same then yes I am familiar with the force being used which whilst ok for the first few envelopes becomes a bit obvious for the last two. |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts
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Seems that it was well liked but if there was more to it, it could have been far better.
As a one-off it's just so-so. I would never do this on it's own. There's no context.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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jimgerrish Inner circle East Orange, NJ 3209 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 29, 2018, warren wrote: Die-Confundus is about the die force, and the performance and routine in which you use it is obviously up to you. It is not the same as the die force used by Mark Shortland but if you think about it, his went too fast to be believable. However, Spellbinder has a version to speed up the last few die selections if you want to give up randomness for direct action.
Jim Gerrish
magicnook@yahoo.com https://www.magicnook.com Home of The Wizards' Journals: https://magicnook.com/wizardsTOC.htm |
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warren Inner circle uk 4195 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 30, 2018, jimgerrish wrote: Jim those routines using a force die certainly have the potential to be entertaining as can be clearly seen with Mark Shortland's routine my remarks were really aimed at routines similar to multi dimensional etc that don't use a force die instead the focus is on revealing the spectators freely chosen number. |
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Rocky Elite user 486 Posts
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The audience was totally bored and unimpressed by this effect. He was foolish to present this as a feat of mentalism. As a feat of boredom...yes. His inability to read the audience created continued performances which were painful for everyone at the party to endure.
If only he were a member of the Magic Café... |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21271 Posts
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Which is why it is not really fair to discuss it. I would like to know what lead up to it and what followed.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Senor Fabuloso Inner circle 1243 Posts
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Just watched the video. TERRIBLE performing environment. Attendees seemed more interested in drinking than, seeing a mental effect. I would not have done it.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.
If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL! |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 2, 2018, Rocky wrote: Didn't seem that way to me. I didn't like the performance whatsoever but the audience seemed to be impressed and certainly not bored. Was I watching the wrong video?
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21271 Posts
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They seemed more engaged than I would have suspected.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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jcigam Special user Bellevue, Nebraska 512 Posts
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I watched Gerry McCambridge do a dice routine, I thought it was very interesting, I personally, was entertained. Entertainment is subjective (successful might be a better way to look at performances...just ask Chad Kroeger). I agree with a lot of the sentiment, already expressed here. What are you trying to communicate by divining the numbers on dice? Are you warming up your abilities, with something familiar to everyone? Are you demonstrating a hustle of some sort? Are you reading micro-expressions? You get the idea.
With regard to the YouTube link, the "billionaires" looked like they were having a good time. I've filmed shows where I know I killed it; great interaction, awesome improve moments, etc.. I get home, watch the video and my memory and the video don't match up. On the flipside, I've done shows I wasn't happy with and people end flooding me with compliments. Like I said, it's subjective. There's not a perfect formula. Sorry, I've digressed. I find mentalism related dice routines to be entertaining.
"The mind has exactly the same power as the hand, not merely to grasp the world, but to change it."
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warren Inner circle uk 4195 Posts
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I think perhaps I'm basing the reactions on the typical reactions we get as magicians which are much more animated than that shown in the video which maybe typical reactions for a mentalist.
As I said I like the effect and think the effect is strong but it just seem's to lack something to me, however I think the performance in the clip I provided was very dull and so far every performance I've seen of this particular type of effect are no better than the clip I provided unfortunately. |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts
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I will say (with some trepidation) it felt a bit creepy that the performer only wanted beautiful women to stare into his eyes..... and again... and again...
The fact that he wouldn't perform for any male audience members further solidified the creepy factor for me. Maybe I'm wrong... I hope.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21271 Posts
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Since it was not the performer himself who put this up, and since it didn't include things prior to or after, I am reserving the "creepy" conclusion. It is entirely possible that he lead up to it with things that take the edge off of it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts
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Very possible. Let's hope.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Posted: Oct 26, 2018 10:14 pm 