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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts 
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Just to reiterate, my posts are not meant to suggest that Peter himself personally is not a positive dealer/seller/creator to deal with as a customer. All my interactions with him has been positive. I'm actually not even all that upset that it's been a good long while now with no bonus routine in site (I'm sure I would get a response from Peter if I were to ping him but I'm also being kind of lazy and I want the bonus more out of curiosity as to what the bonus routine is to be rather than as a angry customer). Now, with that said, the same can not be said about Mentalistry based on the responses provided in this thread in regards to the subject of the pre-order bonus routine. At bare minimum there should be an expectation from the customer of the dealer that the dealer SHOULD KNOW the details of a product they are selling. Not even the details in a intricate way but at BARE MINIMUM know what was on the ad-copy they have ON THEIR OWN SITE. It's outrageous to see a dealer claim something that is clearly WRONG and EASILY FACT CHECKED via checking THEIR OWN PRODUCT LISTING AD-COPY (prior to him/them removing the bit about the pre-order bonus routine, which for the record, was a recent edit to that product listing since when I first checked to make sure I was correct, this was no more than ~2 weeks ago yet a day or so ago that portion of the ad-copy was redacted, obviously a VERY RECENT edit likely to have been influenced by the discussion in this thread).
Also, just went through my FB activity log and it would appear that my comments on the early Escalator post (original ad-copy I suppose) on FB is now gone and so has that original Escalator post/thread on FB so... even though I made the inquiry on FB and did receive a reply, I can't find it because that whole post/thread is now poof gone so... 
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252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 3268 Posts
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On Nov 1, 2018, kissdadookie wrote: Agreed
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.
-Theodore Annemann |
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts
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I'm going to have get a little messy here as Tom PM'd me which I appreciate but clearly he REALLY doesn't grasp the fact that he's completely clueless in regards to what he is carrying on his site. This is his PM:
Hi, Escalators IS complete. I took the pre-order section off the adcopy, not because you mentioned it but because you reminded me too as it is no longer a pre-order period. What service does a notice to pre-order customers do for people AFTER pre-order? I find it hard to comprehend that you are calling out me and my site, but Pete's cool, because all the adcopy and everything I have publicly claimed about this product came from Pete himself. You can see that yourself if you go over to Pete's FB page and you'll see the exact same adcopy duplicated there! I have mentioned to Pete about this thread, because obviously you think I am lying, so he will be posting on here at some point about it. I understand that it could cause frustration, but trust me, I am not trying to deceive anyone. I am a passionate business owner who cares about his customers, no smoke and mirrors. If you ask anyone who has had email contact with us, you'll see that. If you've ever received a physical order from us, even that. We spend money on the best and most protective packaging, and even go as far to include inner wrapping and handwritten notes, which bumps our costs up further. If I was a cold business owner, I would go with the bare essentials in order to cut costs - but that's not the case. Hope you can understand Smile Tom Here's the original post off of Peter's FB page for Escalators. Essentially the full ad-copy: https://imgur.com/a/HfFIrO0 https://imgur.com/a/sYyKQB7 I don't see how I can be any more clear here. CLEARLY STATES THAT THE PROJECT CONTAINS TEN ROUTINES AND THAT PREORDERS GETS A BONUS ROUTINE IN THE FORM OF PDF+VIDEO. FOR THE RECORD, I am NOT saying that Tom is trying to con anybody. What I'm pointing out is him clearly not having any sort of even a remotely resembling solid grasp on at least one product that he is selling. My criticism here is that of a retailer clearly being more or less oblivious as to the products he/she is selling and then going beyond that, does not bother to fact check themselves (clearly I'm doing the legwork for Mentalistry here) and instead of doing so they just go on the defensive. Like this makes no sense, all Tom had to do was read the ad-copy or go dig up the original post on FB instead of having me do so in order to substantiate my criticism here. |
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Tom Wong Loyal user England 291 Posts
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On Nov 2, 2018, kissdadookie wrote: I think you will find the screenshots you posted in no way resemble what Mentalistry has posted, and our adcopy. Just to be clear, our adcopy IS and ALWAYS HAS BEEN: A few years ago Peter filmed a project which showed his take on Annemann (and friends) work that was titled ‘Jinxed’ – A project which contained updated variants and effects inspired by effects that Peter felt were overlooked gems (From PME). In the last few months, Peter has tackled (In video form) Corinda’s 13 Steps in which is being titled ‘Escalators’. This project is a digital video download (emailed directly to each purchaser) with a personal download link. The project contains 10 routines with in-depth explanations and added subtleties in video format. These are the routines that I have found to be the very best routines from within 13 steps – each one carefully handpicked after years of re-visiting this work of art. I’ve taken each of these routines and ran with them adding my own twists to these effects making them streamlined, practical, modern and hard hitting. Duped – A Drawing duplication (Impromptu, on the fly any place anytime) Out of my Mind – A clean out of this world, no swapping piles, the participant deals the first half of the packet face up after mixing them and nails them 100% and finishes with a high crescendo dealing the second half face down and revealing yet again they were perfect. Q+A – The simplest self working version I’ve seen, participants don’t even need to write for you to tell them the question / the answer. Magazine Test – 3 participants, 3 articles and you nail them. A Blind Coincidence – They think of a card never telling you, each of you turn a card face up under the table in a facedown packet and you hand them your packet they name their thought of card spread them and they are the ONLY faceup cards. Triology – An envelope is placed on a table, you spread a deck of cards faceup and ask them to think of a couple of cards (one they think you are thinking of and one they would like you to guess) – you reveal the card they are thinking of no fishing – and then they name the card they think you are thinking of and it is in the envelope on the table. As the kicker you turn the deck over and that card is the only one with an indifferent back. Knowledge – You think of a word write it down (never telling the participant) they think of a word never telling you. You both correctly guess each other’s word. The Mystery of the Message – Someone at a table is asked to hold an envelope and feel who they believe the message inside belongs to. It was written long before getting to the venue – When read aloud it contains that persons name, star sign and date of birth. Shopped – A list of shopping items are on stacks of cards the cards are mixed and the performer looks at them briefly after the mix (memorising them) the participant takes one item and the performer can instantly tell the participant the missing item. This is repeated with the performer never looking at the stack and the performer dupes the drawing of the item. Revealing a matched turn around. The only thing that isn't in this current adcopy that previously was is the sentence that was included during Pre-Orders which was "For a limited time, pre-orders will receive a pre-order bonus (Video & PDF). Which has been taken off the adcopy as pre-orders have ended. I mentioned NOTHING of a 'routine' all I stated it as was a 'bonus' which is included at the bottom of the PDF for all Pre-orders! The content you have shared here via a screenshot is from Pete's PERSONAL Facebook page and has nothing to do with me and does not reflect me or my website in any way. I think at this point, you are just trying to 'entertain' people and are not willing to accept that you were given the complete project so I will step away from this thread as I have no more time to waste on this cyclical argument. Kind regards, Tom
Mentalistry | Providing quality products to Mentalists across the globe
www.mentalistry.com |
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts
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On Nov 2, 2018, Tom Wong wrote: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH TOM. Unless you are claiming that what you offered up for preorder is DIFFERENT from what Peter was selling directly, you have NO ARGUMENT HERE. It does not matter ONE IOTA if Peter's post has different wording from you copy pasta ad-copy for the product on your site. They are the SAME PRODUCT are they not? Since they are the SAME PRODUCT then the expected CONTENT of the product is the same is it not? YOU are claiming that the product is complete and includes the pre-order bonus. You even described what the bonus was. I purchased my copy directly from Peter. The product you provided to your customers as far as I know is the SAME as I have received DIRECTLY from Peter. AGAIN, Peter's ORIGINAL POST FROM JULY STATES that Escalator is comprised of TEN routines. I listed the contents of what we have received. The ORIGINAL POST FROM JULY FROM PETER'S FB STATES that the preorder bonus is a BONUS ROUTINE IN THE FORM OF PDF+VIDEO. AGAIN, the count for the number of routines contained thus far is TEN. THE PREORDER BONUS IS MISSING. Unless your argument is that what you are selling is a DIFFERENT PRODUCT to what Peter was selling directly, YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT. God sakes, all you had to do was FACT CHECK it instead of wasting my time doing it FOR YOU and on top of that you're now claiming that you are correct with your information simply because the wording on the ad-copy on your site is a little different to what Peter posted? ARE YOU EFFEN SERIOUS?!? ONLY way you have a winning argument is if the product you are selling is NOT the same product Peter was selling directly. Is this the case? NO. TO BE FAIR. Perhaps what YOU are selling off your site is DIFFERENT to what Peter was selling directly, for which you will now have to explain to YOUR CUSTOMERS why they paid the EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY for a product that contains less expected content than what they would have received ordering from Peter directly. So go ahead, explain why anybody should have bothered ordering from you in the first place if they expected the same product but in fact are receiving less for the same price. OBVIOUSLY I don't expect you to claim that you are selling a different product THUS back to my original point, YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE AS TO WHAT YOU ARE SELLING. Just man up, fact check, and do right by your customers. Simple as that. AGAIN, I've stated before, I'm pretty sure that you are NOT intentionally trying to screw over your customers and this is more of a matter of you not providing adequate correct communication with your customers AND it also demonstrates that you are lacking in having a grasp as to at least ONE product that you are selling from your store. |
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts
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Let me also now quote you again here Tom, since you have now stated:
"The only thing that isn't in this current adcopy that previously was is the sentence that was included during Pre-Orders which was "For a limited time, pre-orders will receive a pre-order bonus (Video & PDF). Which has been taken off the adcopy as pre-orders have ended. I mentioned NOTHING of a 'routine' all I stated it as was a 'bonus' which is included at the bottom of the PDF for all Pre-orders!" Quote:
On Oct 25, 2018, Tom Wong wrote: To be SUPER CLEAR as to the reason I've just quoted you again Tom, here is the pertinent part: Yeah, the videos under the section, Bonus are the Bonuses one got for Pre-Ordering. Then in a later post you posted this in response to one of my posts: Quote:
On Oct 31, 2018, Tom Wong wrote: YOU LITERALLY have claimed that we have all received our pre-order bonus and the pre-order content has been provided complete. You even went as far as to CLAIM that the preorder bonus routine has already been provided to customers. So now I am forced to call you out for clearly LYING. The lying isn't what concerns me though because I understand that you're simply on the defensive and instead of fact checking yourself you're making further claims which you are evidently way too lazy to fact check as well to make sure that your statements have been congruent (in other words, you're being entirely reactionary rather than analytical or rational). I also honestly don't believe that you are intentionally trying to rip off. What is CLEAR however is that you DO NOT HAVE A CLUE about at least Escalators for which you are selling and sold as a preorder as well. ON A POSITIVE NOTE: From what I understand (and this is pretty recent info), something is still coming soon for pre-orders so there is that bit of good news.  I guess I'm doing the LEGWORK again for Tom's customers on behalf of Tom since TOM should have been on top of such things in the first place. Smh Tom, S. M. H.
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Tom Wong Loyal user England 291 Posts
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On Nov 2, 2018, kissdadookie wrote: This is laughable man, the project is complete. I am the one who told you Pete is going to give you guys something extra because of all the stirring you are doing here. It was NOT intended but Pete is doing it to satisfy you. I have tons of products on the site and haven't ever had an issue like this with ONE, so as far as you calling me lazy, that's a joke. I watched Escalators before it was even public to you. As far as I am concerned, my customers are happy, and if not they can email me about it - I usually reply pretty quickly because again I am far from lazy and appreciate my customers. You didn't even order from me, so I don't even know why I am bothering wasting my time. If you have an issue, go talk to Pete about it. Cheers
Mentalistry | Providing quality products to Mentalists across the globe
www.mentalistry.com |
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts
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On Nov 2, 2018, Tom Wong wrote: Stop wasting everybody's time with your lies. I've caught you out on it. PROVED IT WITH YOUR OWN POSTS and like a ignorant person you are that can't get your head out of your own rear and thus just doubling down on being defensive/idiocy. Now you are claiming that Peter is simply responding to me somehow trying to stir up trouble? LMFAO. I'll let you know that I personally did contact Peter last week on Friday IRC to give him the heads up that none of what I have posted in this thread was directed at him. I even gave you the benefit of the doubt and stated that I don't believe that you are trying to rip people off but rather simply ill-informed about a product that you are selling and instead of addressing actual concerns you just blindly went on the defensive. It DOES NOT MATTER if you reply to your customers quickly because it's QUITE EVIDENT that you are NOT WELL INFORMED ABOUT A PRODUCT YOU ARE SELLING so no matter how polite or quickly you are with replying to customers (allegedly, all this is coming out of your mouth and I haven't seen any of your customers on here to defend your ill-informed tuckus) because YOU ARE MISINFORMING THEM IN REGARDS TO THIS TOPIC OF PRE-ORDER BONUS FOR ESCALATOR. It's also HORRENDOUS that you are coming on here claiming Peter is doing XYZ simply to satisfy my criticisms (criticisms OF YOU AS A ILL-INFORMED RETAILER) because I'm willing to bet that you more or less fabricated that bit of "news" because when I briefly chatted with Peter last week this was NOT the vibe I was getting from him. So far you have refused to answer the following questions I posed to you: 1) Are you selling a DIFFERENT product from what Peter was offering directly in regards to Escalator, because if that is the case, ok, then your pre-order bonus offering may differ from what Peter was CLEARLY OFFERING FROM HIS OWN FB POST AD-COPY FOR PREORDERS OF ESCALATOR? 2) If 1 is true then you have A LOT of explaining to do in regards to why ANYBODY should have bothered to order from you when ordering from Peter netted them MORE content then what you are offering. 3) So if 1 and 2 then you ALSO have to explain why people were paying THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR LESS MATERIAL WHEN PREORDERING FROM YOU. 4) You STILL haven't explained how come IN THIS THREAD you claimed that the BONUS ROUTINE was already provided for pre-orders yet it's been advertised to be 10 routines STANDARD and with pre-orders one is to expect to receive a BONUS routine in addition to the standard 10. I QUOTED YOU DIRECTLY yet you CLAIM that you said NOTHING about a bonus routine. 5) You are one of the WORSE liars I've encountered in recent memory. Reason being you just doubled down on the lies when I caught you out on it. 6) I feel awful for those that agreed to sell material through your website because you are a terrible retailer to deal with. 7) Buying already published items from your site like poses no problems as you just send out ready to send PDFs but CLEARLY in regards to needing insight into the content of the material you sell, customers SHOULD OBVIOUSLY not expect ANY sort of credible information on the products they may potentially wish to buy because you simply (based on this instance) don't know what the heck you are even selling. Period. 8) This is why sites and people like Michael Murray and MindFX are such a gem on the marketplace because CLEARLY being able to adequately support customers is a HARD thing to do and not everyone is equipped to do so (like yourself, CLEARLY ill-equipped). |
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Tom Wong Loyal user England 291 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 5, 2018, kissdadookie wrote: Are you still here? 1) No, I am not selling a different product to Pete. It is the same, however, I have no control over what he posts on his personal Facebook page. My adcopy is and was always correct. I mentioned no such 'routines' 2) Answered above. 3) Answered above. 4) Again, as I have repeated multiple times, I mentioned no 'routine'. The wording on the site said 'bonus'. No mention of routines. Just bonus. One more time in case you didn't digest that. Didn't say routine, just bonus (which is there in the pdf) 5) I may be the worst liar you have ever encountered, that's your opinion of course, but that isn't relevant here as there has been no lying on my part. 6) I am sorry you feel that way. From my perspective, that's not the case. If it was I would have gone out of business long ago. Go ahead, have a look through the site, and contact each creator on there individually, I am almost certain they'll let you know it isn't the case and if not, I'll nite my tongue. 7) I read/watch all material that goes up on the site. Of course, you won't believe that because you think I am a liar but I can assure you many e-books have been turned down as I didn't think they were suitable for the site. Now, how would I have known that if I didn't read them? 8) Again that's your opinion of course and at least we agree on something. MindFX & Michael Murray are great!
P.s. I have PM'd you. Hope that helps. Have a nice rest of your day. Tom
Mentalistry | Providing quality products to Mentalists across the globe
www.mentalistry.com |
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tmoca Inner circle 1113 Posts
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Tom,
Can you clarify something for me as I have not heard from anyone that purchased. In regards to the section titled "Bonus"...do only the Pre-Order people have this section? |
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts
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On Nov 5, 2018, Tom Wong wrote:Are you still here? So since you are stating that you have no control over what Peter had in his post then again, why have YOU not asked Peter about it and point out the discrepancy to him? That is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY as a retailer to be on top of the vendors for which are supplying your store with product. I've SHOWN you the proof which you have NOT refuted (that's why you keep landing back on the defense of you having no control over what Peter posts). Same product. SAME PRE-ORDER BONUS. Explain the discrepancy and explain why you have FAILED to get an explanation in regards to the discrepancy with Peter's post. As for what you messaged me with, it paints Peter negatively from that snippet but since you took that screenshot out of context (as I don't know what the rest of the conversation was leading up to that response), this could be entirely on Peter but I'm not going to place that fault on him just yet out of the snippet you took a screenshot of and PM'd to me. Back to the original point: 1) You have now ACKNOWLEDGED that the product is the same as what Peter offers directly. 2) Since they are the same then WHATEVER PETER POSTED ORIGINALLY IN JULY APPLIES TO WHAT YOU ARE SELLING. 3) DUE to point 2 being true, it is YOUR responsibility to get YOUR CUSTOMERS an explanation as to why there is a discrepancy. 4) Instead of doing what I've mentioned in point 3, all you've done is nothing other than redirect the problem to Peter and claim that you have no control over what he has posted himself. 5) Again, what Peter posted which I have provided proof of APPLIES TO WHAT YOU ARE SELLING DIRECTLY THUS THE AD-COPY HE POSTED APPLIES TO WHAT YOU SELL. Why? Because you've just confirmed that you are selling THE SAME PRODUCT WITH THE SAME CONTENT. Since you have confirmed that, that leaves YOU on the hook for providing YOUR customers with whatever HIS ad-copy stated. It doesn't matter what YOUR ad-copy stated if this is the same product with the same content. HIS ad-copy APPLIES to what YOU are selling. PERIOD. What part of this is so hard for you to grasp? |
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Dr Ross Loyal user Lincoln, UK 203 Posts
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What a thread this has become! Certainly satisfies my voyeuristic tendencies
But as an aside (or perhaps a return to topic?), do you guys like the 10 core routines? I've more than missed the pre-order period, but it's been on my wishlist and I am fan of Pete's work. Is it worth getting, regardless of the supposed elusive bonus thing? Cheers in advance for your thoughts. - Ross
Ross Bartels
Author of: 'Vector' (propless code divination) https://www.mindfx.co.uk/products/vector-by-ross-bartels-e-book 'Janken' (propless RPS effects) - limited release 'Tacitus' (non-verbal propless effect) - limited release |
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts
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On Nov 6, 2018, Dr Ross wrote: It is excellent and this one isn't a limited edition thing so there isn't the usual fear of missing out syndrome for Escalator. Practical effects. Apart from one or two routines, these are all pretty much mechanical in nature thus as long as you've executed the mechanics of the effect well, they are pretty surefire. |
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Tom Wong Loyal user England 291 Posts
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On Nov 6, 2018, Dr Ross wrote: Glad the conversation is back on topic
Mentalistry | Providing quality products to Mentalists across the globe
www.mentalistry.com |
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tmoca Inner circle 1113 Posts
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Tom,
Perhaps you missed my question as it was kind of sandwiched in between longer posts, Can you clarify something for me as I have not heard from anyone that purchased. In regards to the section titled "Bonus"...do only the Pre-Order people have this section? |
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TheGingerWizard Special user 733 Posts
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On Nov 6, 2018, tmoca wrote: Surely this simple question would finally clarify this whole mess. If people who ordered after release and the preorder have this bonus section then it srands to reason that people who did preorder haven’t received the bonus they were promised. Is there anyone who bought after release that can answer it? |
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Tom Wong Loyal user England 291 Posts
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On Nov 7, 2018, TheGingerWizard wrote: Sorry, yeah I didn't see your post as it was sandwiched. In short, yes, only Pre-Order customers receive those bonuses. I have PM'd you
Mentalistry | Providing quality products to Mentalists across the globe
www.mentalistry.com |
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts
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Tom, remember when you keep saying in this thread that Peter's post had nothing to do with Mentalistry?
Explain why you then have this on your FB: https://imgur.com/a/Lk31vSf Bonus routine (PDF&Video). Where is the bonus routine? That's your FB. Your post. You typed it up. If the bonus is indeed the section titled bonus on the PDF, explain how come there are no routines to be found in that section. Clearly YOUR ad-copy states the bonus is a routine. Nothing in the "bonus" section can be mistaken in any way, shape or form as a routine. |
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tmoca Inner circle 1113 Posts
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On Nov 7, 2018, Tom Wong wrote: Tom, Thank you for the reply. However, I feel that your more complete answer that you PM'd me should be posted here because it raises more questions. Quote:
Tom Wong wrote: So... 1) Why did ANY of the pre-order documents go out to ANYONE that did not pre-order? Isn't that your responsibility? Even it was sent to you late, there should have been ZERO non-pre-order people getting it. 2) What is the point of pre-ordering to get a bonus if even one non-pre-order person received it as well? This makes me feel cheated and taken advantage of. The marketing on this was, Pre-Order and you get a bonus. A bonus that one would assume did not and would not go out to non-pre-order folks. Also the image above states clearly what I thought I saw as well when I purchased. I just know it wasn't on FB, but I am not on there....unless someone sent me a screeny of it. I knew I had heard or seen something about a bonus routine with PDF and video I really wish we had some solid answers on what the hell we were supposed to get. |
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Tom Wong Loyal user England 291 Posts
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On Nov 7, 2018, tmoca wrote: Massive apologies sir, as I said, it was only a few but I understand your frustration. That is my fault. Regarding the image, that is how it was originally posted on our Facebook page. Once the bonuses came in that was changed on the site adcopy, but evidently, I must've forgotten to recite that Facebook post. I did also send out an update email on Escalators, but again, I take full responsibility for that discrepancy. If you ordered from me, shoot me an email at tom@mentalistry.com and I will do my best to try and resolve the issue there
I think Peter will be posting here soon as well. Again apologies. Keep well, Tom
Mentalistry | Providing quality products to Mentalists across the globe
www.mentalistry.com |
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Posted: Nov 1, 2018 05:44 pm 
