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XaviumLord New user Ohio 68 Posts 
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Yeah, I didn't really expect it to be that brutal.
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reignofsound Inner circle Glasgow, UK 2208 Posts
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Glad I watched that today.
Saved me some cash. Will stick with my Raven |
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts
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I don't get it. If one wants to do PK animations, just stick with the Pro PK (aka go buy yourself that small brick of you know what for like less than half the price that these things cost) and if you want to do vanishes or changes, get a Raven.
If you want to do the chop cup stuff, good ole PK ring. |
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JasonL2112 Regular user 169 Posts
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Unless of course you have reasons not to want to use a PK ring (for which there are various), and want to perform in short sleeves.
What's wrong with having options? Quote: On Jan 10, 2018, kissdadookie wrote:
GLOMM
http://www.theglomm.com/ |
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rustic New user 18 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 10, 2018, lumberjohn wrote: Have to agree. Totally biased Reviews. Seems those wizard guys simply have it out for Silent assistant and control and really comes off like they both put a negative review to protect Nick night more than show concearn for the actual review of the product as I just received this today and all I can say is How could anyone NOT like this thing. I feel wizard really loosing their integrity these days with new product reviews, almost like an attack toward the creators of both effects. Then the whole “I wonder if nick night has contacted these people” - - lol so sad really Now after all that being said, I have not had a chance to watch the instructional or work with Control just yet. I plan to tomorrow or over the weekend. But my first impression from pulling out the main gimmick is “very impressed” not to mention all the very well made extras in the kit. Main gimmick is very cool and very well thought out. can’t wait to start working with it. Will post review after weekend hopefully. Cheers |
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XaviumLord New user Ohio 68 Posts
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I feel like a lot of their complaints were directed at the instructional video. Honestly speaking, I kind of agree with them in that I also lack some confidence in a few of the routines taught. Some of them seem very obvious. But, you gotta think outside the box. You can do all this PK ring stuff with something more invisible now. No way I'd ever use a PK ring, because THAT'S beyond obvious as well. I'll take the gimmick I can take on and off in a moment's notice AND stay hidden, thanks.
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MagicBrent Inner circle 2579 Posts
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Rather than not believe in the product, I felt genuinely connected to Greg Wilson during his explanations of Control and appreciated the genuine struggles that come with presenting the effect. It was just an angles thing with the bottle trick. From the side and presentational skills, Controlling the tide of the water in a bottle was pretty Impressive I thought imho. The only thing I think I would like about the silent assistant which I don’t own is that it would be more invisible whereas Greg presents some effects from a seated position where you may lap, remove gimmick, put back on, repeat which would t be necessary as much with the silent assistant. Would you agree?
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XaviumLord New user Ohio 68 Posts
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On Jan 10, 2018, MagicBrent wrote: Probably the only thing SA has over Control is the fact it's a lot more invisible. I was honestly a bit taken aback by the Control gimmick the first time I saw it, wondering how in the world I would get away with using it. From what I can see, that's just me overthinking it. So yeah, Control comes with the extra bit of having to get down your ditching, but it's honestly easier than I expected and allows your hands to be clean so quickly. I feel like my more astute observers are going to be demanding to see hands pretty quickly, and Control would be long-gone by then. |
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McIntyreMagic New user Brooklyn, NY 88 Posts
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I personally like the SA it is much easier to conceal than control and still can do many of the classic okbring effects without as much noise. It isn’t perfect by any means but overall, I’m satisfied. My only wish is they could have included much more ideas on the download than they did.
John McIntyre
My website: http://mcintyremagic.com |
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts
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On Jan 10, 2018, JasonL2112 wrote: You can perform vanishes with the Raven in short sleeves. Animations with the Pro PK type unit also does not require sleeves. With Pro PK type unit animations, you basically also don't need to ditch anything and your hands and arms are completely barren of anything needing to be concealed. Pretty much same goes for the Raven as the way it works, there's nothing to conceal and hide in practice, ditching is automatic as well without hands ever needing to leave the sight of your audience. Options for the sake of options is nonsensical. If a new method or device does not really improve on technology which was already available, it's essentially unnecessary apart from the fact that all it's doing is providing options for the sake of options. |
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J M Talbot Inner circle 3060 Posts
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Just received my Silent Assistant. Obviously knew what I was getting so no surprise there. Overall happy with the quality and it fits my finger well. In my mind options are good... everyone of these PK devices has pros and cons I don't care what it is (and I own many). Some require more set-up, some are noisy, some are harder to hide, etc, etc. Silent Assistant will get used by me and is great for the applications I want it for. Could I use something else, perhaps, but the small size and ease of getting in and out of it work for me. I like PK rings but do not always want to commit to wearing one, for me this is a great alternative that will be used. As always it is about finding the right tool for your needs and as always needs and opinions will vary, nothing wrong with that.
Cheers, John |
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rustic New user 18 Posts
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On Jan 11, 2018, kissdadookie wrote: Respectfully for the time, yeah they were fine. No attack to anyone but Opening control and seeing what is in the box for the first time, I half to say “No more Huge Thick M****ts for me. This thing is definitely more than alright. Very cool design and very strong stealth like device here. With raven or m5 you need long sleeve to bring the m*****t near to manipulate——and Raven? With short sleeves, good luck on that one, but with sleeves sure np. To call it straight - There is absolutely No comparison between raven, m5/pro pk and control or SA That’s why the thread is called Control vs SA. And SA is totally Different from Control as well. The real similarity is the skin tone factor and the fact a m****t is used. Will have full review soon Ok back to the control vs SA shall we. Cheers |
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magicmike30 Special user 744 Posts
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On Jan 10, 2018, McIntyreMagic wrote: Glad it is working for you but I wonder why this thread is even existent as SA is more comparable to Enigma by nick night. SA is pretty much enigma with a different material. Control is very much different from both of these and has at least 10 times the strength and allows you to do everything that SA/Enigma can do and whole lot more in the world of PK magic and other possibilities. They are all similar in that a m???#t is used and flesh covering. But Control is meant for very different effects is all with the added bonus it can do everything that the others can do as well. Control is also very easy to conceal as it secures in place allowing natural hand movements(no finger contort to hold it) and can show hands actually empty before and after the effects. Mike 
Entertainer
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J M Talbot Inner circle 3060 Posts
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Thanks Mike. I have seen the gimmick for Movemint and while clever and well made it was a bit bulky. I may very well pick this up as well but would like to be able to how stealth it is first. SA fits the need I have now and I can use without telegraphing any "guilt", but am always interested in different devices and tools in this arena.
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magicmike30 Special user 744 Posts
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On Jan 11, 2018, J M Talbot wrote: Hi Talbot It really comes down to what sort of effects one would like to perform. Control is stealth like as well and provides more versatility for many different effects.
Entertainer
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McIntyreMagic New user Brooklyn, NY 88 Posts
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On Jan 11, 2018, magicmike30 wrote: I also have played with control, really do love it and appreciate the extra strength but just enjoy the concealment of SA. Personally, I found it easier to conceal. While Control is a great product it just wasn't AS easy for me. P.S. I completely agree, enigma is a great product and this thread is a little bit irrelevant...
John McIntyre
My website: http://mcintyremagic.com |
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magicmike30 Special user 744 Posts
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Thanks McIntyre
Appreciate your opinion. Just to requote what I noted above. It Really Does come down to what sort of effects one would like to perform. Control is stealth like as well and provides more versatility for many more different effects. With More options to fit ones performing style. With sa You cannot perform nearly as much as you could with control.you are limited. No real comparison here as control allows you to do everything sa allows and much more. Any good effect deserves the time and practice to make it fit and work for the performer. This also comes down to if one is a serious worker or hobbyist respectfully. Mike
Entertainer
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J M Talbot Inner circle 3060 Posts
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Not sure why the push to suggest these items are the Swiss army knifes for PK/magnet stuff. SA is clearly much smaller and easier to comfortably conceal in the hand. It however is designed for changes and vanishes of lighter items primarily and due to the smaller size the force is weaker than Control. Control provides a much stronger force but as result a larger item to conceal in the hand. It's strength is in cool PK stuff. I don't own Control, I do own Movemint and have been told the size is pretty much the same. Again it comes down to picking the right tool for your application.
I see Gregory Wilson as a serious worker but to me in the demo's I get sense he is palming something. Part of that is we know he is palming something so are looking for it, but still it is more difficult to conceal in the hand convincingly for most. And yes I realize both of these items can be ditched but I am talking about the heat during the actual performance. Verdict for me.. if you want to create movement or need a stronger force get Control. If you want to vanish or change lighter items like coins, shells, etc get Silent Assistant. Or if you just like to experiment get both. They are both great tools with different primary strengths. Mike if we ever run into each other at Browser's Den perhaps you can prove me wrong
Cheers, John |
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pegasus Eternal Order United Kingdom 10537 Posts
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Problem being is that every so called PK movement looks like a magnet is in play. There’s no getting around that unfortunately. I use a PK ring for Prohibition, and that’s it. Most of the effects in the demo’s look awful.
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 11, 2018, rustic wrote: Raven with short sleeves is perfectly doable. The only clothing requirement is that you need a button down short sleeve so you can't perform it in a t-shirt. I bought Movemint and used it for awhile. I know what Control is roughly going to be because it's based on that same gimmick but this one is stronger (Control) which means that it is going to be even larger than the Movemint gimmick. Pro PK/M5 type device would be both more powerful, work through tables, and leaves your arms and hands completely free. To put it simply, based on what you have said about the Raven and Pro PK/M5 it sounds to me that you either never used them OR you have them but never bothered to work with them all that much to figure out that for example the M5 does not need a upperbody hook up at all for animations. Like I said, the Pro PK/M5 style device works through tables. Let's put it this way, the SA does not appear strong enough to perform animations with so the utility of it is relegated to things like chop cup routines and vanishes/changes. For chop cup routines you might as well just use the ring. For vanishes/changes, the Raven is the cleaner and thus superior method. For animations, the Pro PK/M5 would be the better option since there is nothing to ditch and you do not need to wear it on your arms or hold it in your hands, so essentially due to that and the fact that it works through tables, it is cleaner than Control as your hands and arms can be clean throughout and you can be shirtless if you wish. |
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Posted: Jan 10, 2018 05:40 pm 