I'm not sure if I exactly said my friend would not allow parents to record the show at a birthday party (if I did, please show me).

I did, however, state that my friend records it for parents who want that service. I think he charged the parents an extra $50 if they wanted this service, and only taped if the parents requested this add-on to their birthday package. This was all arranged on the phone, before he went to the home. He only brought the cameraperson when it was appropriate.

A student would come in with the camera, tape the show, quickly edit in titles before and after, and simply hand the VHS tape to the parents as he left out the door. The student was paid a certain fee out of that $50, the entertainer keeping the rest (cost of camera use, cost of videotape, fee to arrange this bonus, etc). No copy of the tape was kept by the magician, and the one and only tape was given to the parent for non-commercial, home-use only (this is why the parents of the birthday guests did not need to be asked permission, I think).

I hope that addresses your question about videotaping a birthday party show, for profit.

About non-birthday shows: Here is how I would expand on your comment about the classroom show. Many schools and daycares have written policies about their students photos being taken. This policy includes videotaping. Some reasons are for privacy, some are for the protection of the student (some parents need to keep their child safe from the other parent who wishes to abduct the child. There are court restraining orders against the other parent, and they may not even know where their child is. It's true!) These policies are in place for a reason.

If you are going to videotape a public show, or even a private show, for your own COMMERCIAL use, you will need to seek the parents' and guardian's permission. Or put it on your contract that you will be filming the show, and have your customer's understanding and permission. You'll also need to announce it before the show, that you are taping, and that anyone who doesn't want to be filmed, should leave. In the latter case, you are still running into a grey area (use of video of individuals, aka volunteers, is more risky than a group audience shot). In reality, they are a model. Although it is your show, you are still using their image to promote yourself, for your COMMERCIAL purposes. That's why you are taping it, right? Also, some people don't want their picture being used without permission for other reasons.

(Magician Kirk Charles has model release forms in his book, "Standing Up Surrounded".)

The fact that news crews (TV and newspapers) can film and take photos, and use them, is different. Perhaps someone will explain why. I've already gone on too long for now.

Hope this helps.

- Donald.

P.S. Diclaimer: The above is not a legal opinion. If you need professional legal council on this matter, please seek out the appropriate professionals.

My problem is that parents don't want to film my show, they want to film their kids. This usually involves coming up onto the stage and standing next to me and filming.

EVEN WHEN ITS IN THE CONTRACT!

There are probably only a few people who recall the "rules" stated in a contract. Especially for those who use multiple page contracts.

Nicholas, do you ask them AT THE SHOW, immediately before the show, not to come to the performing area during the show? Have you tried the idea of masking tape on the floor as a "stage" barrier to get the message across, and go through the rules that no one is to cross the tape, unless invited? (The kids will do the job for you of telling the adults to keep behind the line! )

You could always go impromptu at that point, say "Uh-oh, he crossed the line. Now I'm going to make his video camera disappear!" Take the camera, then pull out your Wiz-kote Illusion, and "burn" it to a crisp. (Or you could vanish it using a take-apart dove box.) Talk about a memorable message about crossing the line. Just joking! Hehehe! Yeah, people always love it when you do magic with their "borrowed" object!

- Donald.

I don't get it. The audience shots are some the best ones. Parents want to capture the kids reactions. It would be one thing if the KIDS are not laughing or not enjoying your show.

I, too, use a masking tape line on the floor and for the most part parents stay back to take pictures and video. However, if I see that they are getting good crowd reaction shots, I ask them if I can pay for a copy. Those shots are PRICELESS.

At a birthday they are not having the birthday for US they are there for the children. We are just HIGH priced baby sitters.

Ken

I agree with you Ken.

For me, when I was thinking of Nicholas' situation, I thought of the very few times it has happened to me. At those times, the parents came right up and stood right beside me, or behind my su-table, as I was performing. (They were an obvious distraction for me and the kids.)

Personally, I like a little personal space when doing my show, unless I make the choice.

- Donald.

Ken,

Your post reminds me of when I saw Ian Rowland perform last year. Before the show he came on with a camera and asked whether he could get the cut away reactions BEFORE the show. He got everyone laughing and clapping before he started and filmed it!

It was a great warm up!

This thread is becoming most interesting. Thanks everyone for contributing your views.

I have tried asking a video-taping parent for a copy of the tape, they always say "Yes" but I -never- receive it. I don't nag because I feel that's bad business.

Ah well.

They do it anyways, without asking.

Well my view is that they have paid for it so let them have the pleasure of keeping it ....providing it is not done professionaly in order to publish it. It will make no difference to your bookings .....in fact it could improve them when they show it to their friends.

In fact it could improve them when they show it to their friends.

Hey that's a good point, thanks Derek. My wife told me a teacher was filming my last show and she overheard her say "I need to rewind this to see where the rabbit went."

I let them tape the show. Most of the time they don't tape the whole show.
But what I do and you may use this almost at the end of the show I look right into the camera and say,If you enjoy this show and want more info. you can go on my web site at http://www.anderwmartinmagic.com . It gets a big laugh.

As for news crews, they are allowed in public venues to air a certain amount of time. Like a performance of a concert or legitimate theater, news crew are allowed to air so many minutes of that performance. Now how much film they really shoot it another matter.

They can video the "special trick" with their child, and nothing else.


Unless you plan on changing your birthday party every time you do it.

Doesn't Equity say your not allowed to be videtaped withour permission? My friend takes £20 if they want to record him.

Matt

I wouldn't expect your friend gets much repeat work with that kind on attitude Matt!

He does suprisingly He is good just he doesn't like people recording him.

Matt

Hi all, great thread,

Having a rider on your agreement/contract lets the parents know exactly where they stand prior to the event (whether you choose to allow video taping or not) and avoids the debate occurring on the childs big day, something that might spoil the event to some degree.

Appearances at company picnics or other such gigs need a different approach but I find that each case has to be assessed on its own merits.

Ever had a hidden camera tape your show? One of my co-workers wife actually hired a stripper to embarrass her husband at work. She dressed as a cop and acted like he was getting a ticket. The rule was "No pictures or video allowed" per the agreement the wife had with the performer. Knowing this in advance, the wife got 3 camera's from different angles since she got to pick when and where she would perform. If your answer was "No" to the first question, how would you know? And if you did discover one half way through your act, would you ruin the show, or the event by insisting it be turned off? It would be within your right, but in the end is it worth it?

I agree with many above. Private parties are one thing, public performances are another. There are some really tiny, remote camera's available these days over the internet. You can fight it, or you can embrace it. Fact is, if a parent wants to tape a show, you can't stop them if they are determined...because you will never KNOW!

I am the exact same way....

WayneNZ,
You think YOU live in a small town?! Try a population of 12001. That's my situation. I concider myself a "seasoned amatuer" but would love to become semi-pro. Your post has made me think about whether or not I would allow recordings of my performances. It has never been mentioned as I have only to perform at parties. This past Friday night my wife and I were invited to a party and many of my wife's co-workers requested in advance that I "do some magic". Of course I was pleased to do so and I am just beginning to make some kind of name for myself. It was the first party that my audience consisted primarily of kids (ranging in age from approx. 10 yrs to 18 yrs old). I am pleased to say that everything went well. I have said for some time that I didn't think I would want to perform for children for a variety of reasons. When it comes to the very young I've always felt that my material which consist primarily of cards and coins (although I do have more than just a few "general" magic effects/routines) would be difficult for small kids to follow. Depending on age some kids do not realize that someone can not actually make something disappear and they may not know enough about cards (suits, how many cards are in a suit, what four of a kind is, what happens to a deck when it is shuffled, etc.) These have been the primary reasons for being unsure with the little ones.

Being that I live in such a small town I am literally the ONLY magician in town. That is unless someone has yet to come out of the magical closet!

Considering all I have read in this post. I am very unsure if I would want an entire performance video taped. I see no problems with photography (still pictures) being taken. This has happened in the past and I recieved only positive responses from these.

I think this thread is great and am very glad I checked it out. Let's face it, if I do take the next step and focus on becoming semi-pro and putting a little extra in the wallet, I now think I will definately have to reconcider my feeling about the young ones. I would probably be called on more for them than adult parties.

Thanks gang for getting the wheels turning once again. You are all awesome and I appreciate the sharing. This thread alone might just make me or break me (depending on my decision, which is leaning toward the kids since reading this thread.)

The Café rocks and so do the patrons!!
Lee.