James

I don't allow schools, libraries ,etc. to tape my shows for several reasons.

First, one time my show was taped and they watched this tape over and over. Instead of hiring my out to another school this school got the tape from the other school and just showed this tape to the kids for the after school program from which I could have made $400.00 for that show.

You want your shows in this type of venue to be special in that they cannot just go and watch you on tape and see your show.

Another thing is if you have a bad show I don't think you want that tape going around.

But in birthdays I think it is safe to say they are just going to keep it for their enjoyment.

Ken

I agree. I had a show that I did regularly and one year they decided to go with someone that would do the appearance for 10% of my fee. Wouldn't you know that they used video from my previous performances to promote the event even though I wasn't performing.

For all of my parties, I have a taped series of introductions...10 min, 5 min, 3 min. They are humorous ways of introducing myself, preparing the audience for the show, and also stating my no video taping policy. I do not normally have a problem with still photos. I play this series for every show, having modified them for each type of venue.

My birthday message does not include the taping message, however. On my confirmation I list that taping is allowed for non-commercial viewing.

I personally think this sounds professional and should be included.

Good points Ken.

I have no problems with it. I like to know they are going to do it beforehand so I can make sure of the angles. Once a camera appeared (tada) 10 minutes into my show . The father walked up to the front to get a shot of the kids laughing then turned to film my multiplying balls from the side. Ooops, I bet that didn't look too magical on the rerun.

On another occasion when returning to a household after one year the Dad mentioned that a certain trick was great and said he still didn't know how it was done after watching it several times in slow-motion...

So I suppose (possible) exposure could be an argument against.

At one time I had my phone number as a banner along with my name on my festival tent. It got a prominent spot in the newspaper. A photo of me performing, my name AND phone number.

The phone rang around the clock that week.

You can't pay for advertising that good!

I have no problem with videoing the show. It's a fact of life nowadays and it would cause offence if you didn't let them video littles Sarah's party.

I do ask them to talk to me first though, so I can ensure they don't distract the kids, and don't video from behind me.

Usually they don't video the whole show, only the parts with the birthday child in it. If they are videoing the lot they normally just set the camera up on a tripod and leave it running.

I don't worry about them just showing the tape next year and not booking me as if they don't book me someone else will so I haven't lost anything.

There was a time when I would not permit my show to be videotaped under any circumstances. Now, I have a different opinion, and I'll explain why.

I no longer perform at children's birthday parties, but if I did, I would not only allow it to be taped, I would INSIST upon it, and, in fact, I would tape it myself. Then I would offer a copy of it as a purchase option to the proud parent.

Why this approach? First, it makes sure that I don't have somebody behind me videotaping the gimmicks! That has happened to me on a couple of occasions. Second, by having a tape of the show, I have ironclad proof that I did NOT do anything out of order with little Johnny or Janie. If you don't think this is a real worry, ask a number of other fellows who do not perform for kid shows. Third, it's an extra source of revenue, if you can sell them a tape. This leaves them free to watch the show, and they don't have to worry about getting any part of it. It can be part of your marketing, also. A friend of mine in Houston picks up extra money for each show this way.

If I am performing at a Renaissance Festival, I allow only short segments of it to be videotaped. I do allow people to videotape their kids being levitated and things like that. I don't allow the whole show to be taped, because of a very common problem at this kind of show. This is the "local act stealer." While most of the people who live near Renaissance Festivals cannot afford to build the kinds of props I have, they can walk off with lines and bits of business. Friends, those are my bread and butter.

Some friends of mine, a group of jugglers called "The Flaming Idiots" told me that a couple of fellows came up to them after one of their shows and said, "The fellows at the juggling club in ******* really liked the videotape of your show. We are all doing your act now." They explained to these fellows that what they were doing was wrong and asked them to destroy all the copies of their tapes.

If you think this is big-headed, remember this: we earn our livings with our acts. The Flaming Idiots just finished an off-Broadway run.

Bill makes some great points however, people can steal your act but they cannot steal your style/charcter.

ken

Agreed Ken. Bill does make some very nice points and it is smart thinking in regards to adding something else to your marketing.

I also think that video taping your performances not only protects you, but is the one way you have of really evaluating every performance you do and learning from what went right and what went wrong. If you are like I am, you are constantly checking and double checking your show. You are making improvements and adding in bits of funny business when something that was improved went over so well. A video really helps with this entire process.

Kyle

I always allow taping and agree with most of the pros and cons, I do however have a rather amusing story (at least I think it is).

I was performing for a child's birthday and dad was a big techno-geek (for lack of a better term). He had set up two cameras and a few mikes while I was setting up. As I was starting my show, I introduced myself and stated due to copyright I do not allow videotapping of my show. The look on this guys face was priceless and we all got a big laugh.

The show went on and I have been back to their house to do it again.



Jeff

Jeff:

That is great. =)

What is also nice is that sometimes you can get a copy of the tape as well in case you do not get a chance to video tape the show yourself. I think most people do not mind doing you the favor since you are allowing them to film you.

Kyle

That was the part I left out. Here is an exact Cut and Paste from my final confirmation. Feel free to use it because I always believe that uniformity in our business is to my advantage as well:

"Video is OK from the audience point of view only (straight on) and ONLY IF A COPY OF THE TAPE IS PROVIDED TO US. You agree such tape is for personal use and may not be made public without written permission of Magician Walter Glod."

I used to lug in my own camera to every show but now I get a FREE tape of it AND I know EXACTLY what is on the tape that they have (if exposure happened).

There have been some great points brought up here and I for one don't mind being video taped. Here's why. First, if an adult is taping (which usually happens), and I am doing a children's party, it is my insurance policy that someone cannot accuse me of any wrong doings. It's all on video. Unfortunately these days, if you look wrongly at someone, touch or say something inappropriate, you can be held liable in a court of law. I always ask to have a copy and they usually oblige and for the most part, it has helped me to promote my show to friends and relatives of those who taped me. Now, on the other hand if I were truly professional and had an act that was being performed in theatres, Vegas showrooms or theme parks, then I may have to say the obligatory "NO". I think at the birthday level it's your choice to accept or deny.

I can see not allowing a stage show to be video taped but I always allow my birthday shows to be taped for reasons already given.

Heck why not? Good advertising!

I never thought of taping it myself as an additional marketing tool. Very good idea Bill!

In addition to the reason Bill mentioned, it would be a good tool to review your shows if you needed to.
I use a digital camcorder so if I were to do my own taping I would still need to transfer it to a VHS tape before giving it to the family. So arrangements would have to be made to mail it at a later date.

I don't see a big need taping the show for your own safety sake. I don't think I've ever done a show where adults/parents weren't present. I guess it still couldn't hurt in today's paranoid society.

Hey Bill, it's great to know that professionals think alike.

I said the exact same thing in my post on page 1 of this thread, above your post (I think I am the 14th post down).

Wow!

- The Gr8 DonaldD.

You gotta let them videotape it. then their kids will rewatch it over and over, and show it to other people, upping your chance of getting a lot of re-hire's for other events and new clients

I've never let people video my show.

I only live in a small city (40,000) and I've learned that too much exposure is a bad thing.

E.g. If I'm at a public event with free entry, not many people will book a paid show for a while.

Their reason: why pay when we can see you for free?

Keen to hear from others with any ideas etc.

Hello!

Birthday Shows: Mom/Dad can tape, however I ask them if I can show them where to do it from. (Angles, etc.) The best way I've found to do this gently is to let them know if I specify where the camera is, I can have the birthday kid facing the camera without obstruction when they are on stage.

I also find out if they are going to tape the whole thing or not. If so, I get a copy as stated in the agreement. If not, I make sure to provide my own set-up.

School, Stage, Etc: I provide my own camera set-up and ask that no other taping be done without my express consent. I also take down contact information for those interested so that once I've edited in titles and such, I can sell them a copy for a nominal fee.

Copyrighting: At the beginning of each tape I make, there is a copyright notice (kinda like you would see in movie rentals) so I have a way of recourse if it is used inappropriately.

Having every show taped allows you to go back and "review the film" and become better. You can also have a demo of an interesting (or) excellent response to a single illusion that you provide as an example of the quality show you are doing.

Lastly, anyone in local magic rings/clubs (IBM, SAM, etc) should consider allowing (part or all of) recent tapes to be viewed for constructive criticism. If you don't feel you need it, you can show it for newcomers and give them an example of "how it's done".

Just my 2 cents.
Wook

I have received copies of the tape and used parts of them for a live performance demo. I have recently purchased a DVD handycam and I have taken it to larger shows to get some live audience reaction and also to see any weaknesses present in new routines. I wouldn't allow someone to tape a larger show unless I had some say as to the position of the camera. I also found that most amateurs don't hand hold a camera too well. It can make you seasick with the jerky movements and the zooming in and zooming out.
Darryl the Wizard

Wouldn't you get into any legal issues when you do the videotaping in a big show and use the footage for commercial purposes, namely promos and demo footage? Normally don't you have to get consent from people you are filming? I did show for a group of second graders and couldn't film the event because I needed to get prior written consent from their parents before any taping could be done.

Funny thing is that the teacher took some still pictures and posted them in her classroom for parents to see during Open House (or Open Classroom?) So worked out quite well w/free advertising.

The Gr8 Donald, you said your friend does not allow parents to record the show, but the magician can video tape himself and offer it to the parents of birthday child for a price. How does he approach this in a way that doesn't offend the parents? And how much does he sell the tape for?