I have posted here before about negative experiences I have had with churches in response to "magic".

Well, I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch, but it looks like a good possibility that my current church may be open minded. The pastor has expressed some positive comments toward me as I have slowly opened up to him about what I do. He has expressed that he'd like to find a way to use my talents in the church.
Soooooooooo. I feel it in the air that POSSIBLY somewhere down the road he may ask me to do a show. 

So if (BIG little word, there.) But IF he does ask me to perform in church, I'm currently planning in my head what effects I would perform. 

I have some ideas. Nothing substantive yet, but I'm just mentally going through my repertoire and brainstorming possibilities.

Some of the effects that strike me as strong possibilities include: "Enchanted Cube" (instant solving of Rubik's cube). I could patter about how no matter how mixed up our life is, the Lord can straighten it up. I favor that as an opener.

I also have thought about performing some of Aldo Columbini effects. Aldo has some wonderful material. 

I like the thought of doing my lady bugs routine (sponge ball routine using sponge lady bugs.) I think that has an innocence that would go over well  in church. I'm trying to avoid anything that could be interpreted as "dark" or evil. The lady bugs always bring smiles and joy, so they may be a good choice.

I am considering Dan Harlan's "Awakening", but I'm not sure about a patter theme.

I think the Michael Ammar "Coins Through Silk" effect would be appreciated in a church setting. It's just a beautiful effect that church people could appreciate.

Maybe I'll do Dan Harlan's "Hold It Buster!"

Then there is the "Silk Through Arm" effect. (Tie a scarf around a spectators arm and magically penetrate the arm). It's colorful and quick.

I also thought about combining some mentalism, as I could put my Richard Osterlind DVD's to good use. 

Anyway, these are just possibilities of ones I would consider "IF" pastor Reed asks ne to entertain.

I'm posting here to get comments and good advice from you guys who have experience performing for churches. So hit me, guys!
Let me pick your brain first about disclaimers. What is you guy's advice on disclaimers? Are they indispensable? 

Can you suggest a good example of a disclaimer?
Any advice you guys can give me on performing before a church will be really appreciated. I'm all ears.

Daff

Daff, I live in Kentucky where I have attended a number of Southern Baptist Churches. I have never had anyone object to my performing. I also have a presentation called "Coming Home" which I have presented in a number of Churches as well as for groups of Pastors. I do the same Mentalism show as I do for lay audiences, only later relating it to Christian principles after the performance is done.

If you don't claim anything, what is there to disclaim? The performance of magic is quite a bit removed from the sorcery of the Bible. If you think of your show as "the creation of mystery" you will be on safe ground. As a matter of fact, I use this premise in my own show. I talk about how so many people believe the world is only a physical one and that micro-chips are their gods. Then I do things that are impossible and talk about how there is so much more. This opens the door for me to be able to talk about my Savior.

Richard

Richard, I appreciate your advice. And I also appreciate the DVD's you put out through L&L. I don't know where I could go to find higher quality mentalism.

The bad part is that many of the props are difficult to come by.

But I'm going to go over your DVD's again and scour them for effects that would fit. I especially liked the one with Abe Lincoln's silhouette. (The title escapes me at the moment.)

That's our Transparent Forces. As far as the props go, I always tried to include most ideas that you can make up yourself. I even fully explain our marketed items. Our last DVDs, The Sapphire Collection, contain nothing that you can't make up or that is not fully explained. I even included ideas for getting around a couple where I did use a special piece of equipment.

If there is anything that you are interested in, contact me.

Richard

Much appreciated, Richard! Surely I'll be getting in touch with you in the near future.

Intersting I have never had a church I attend or performed at have an issue with performance magic or mentalism. I have an entire act that is mentalism based that looks closely at influence and making proper choices that has always beend well received, I use no disclaimer. Until about 6 months ago lived in south western Ohio actually across the river from Mr. Osterlind now living in Anderson, Sc heart of the bible belt so it will be interesting to see if I experience anything differant.

Volunteer to help in Sunday school to get people to know you.

Consider your self a very lucky guy.

The churches that tend to object to magic are the ones that would generally be described as "fundamentalist" in nature. They are the ones that tend to take the Scriptures 100% literally, and those who rely on individual interpretation.

The great majority of churches are open to magic as entertainment.

Tboehnlein wrote:


now living in Anderson, Sc heart of the bible belt so it will be interesting to see if I experience anything differant.
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Hi Tboehnlein
Welcome to SC!I found the best way to speak in a church is to actually know someone who attends there.I have no problem with the churhes here in the South.I live only 35 miles from you in Abbeville.Lets get together sometime.Would love to get a local chapter going.
Mel

Whether it be in some kind of Christian ministry, or just shows in general, my whole life I have heard, "You can't do this here ... or ... This group won't like that."

The fact is it is always up to the performer and how he presents himself. If you are truly concerned with the best interests of your audience and your heart is in the right place, you will be accepted.

There are no stereotypes. The success or failure is on your shoulders.

I have performed for groups that have been against magic, but due to my presentation they have always approached me, 100% of the time, to tell me that the appreciated my presentation. I have even been hired by churches telling me which words were acceptable. I respectfully ignored them and they were always appreciative of me. Just stay true to the Word, be gracious, and non-judgmental. It's amazing what people will accept in spite of their biases. Richard is 100% of target..it's all about the presentation.

It occurred to me that there are two main places at our church where a performance might occur. One is the main sanctuary, (standing in front of the pulpit) and the other is in the small fellowship hall. Both would require a different show! If I were standing in front of the pulpit, with people in the pews, I would have to use larger props, otherwise probably the only people who could see what I'm doing would be the folks in the first couple pews!

If I were to perform in the smaller room, I could do close up or a stand up or parlor show. So now, to be prepared for anything, I have double the work, creating two shows.

Any body here ever experienced this? Is my thinking correct? Any advice?

I do a stand up..parlor type show regardless. The only time I'll scale it down to close-up is dependent on audience size and nothing to do with the venue. I try not to do a lot of big stuff, mainly because I'm lazy and don't like to haul all kinds of stuff around.

Daff,

Seconding Mike's observation. I have actually found that most churches are fine with magic. In my church, the only stipulation is that you must assure the priest that you perform magic as entertainment. Also, Orthodox churches actually are more open to magic that is what would be termed "secular" as we believe that only deacons, priests, and bishops have the authority to teach. I have done a lot of magic performances in the past for churches from many denominations. The only strange situation I had ever encountered was from a fundamentalist church that ran a coffeehouse. They wanted to book me, we settled on a price, and then the minister stated that after the performance I would have to explain how all of the magic was done so that the show's attendees would understand that what I performed was not the work of Satan. I tried to explain to him that magic is a performance art accomplished by natural means just as we understand that movies are actually an illusion of movement. He still wanted exposure, and I asked him that if I really had infernal powers, would I be performing card and coin magic? He stuttered a bit over that one but then still insisted on my exposing methods. I politely thanked him for his time, explained patiently that these methods were not mine to expose and suggested that he would be better off going with another type of entertainment.

A good rule of thumb at least for me is ALWAYS talk to the ordained priest or minister at a given church. Never assume that what the organizer of an event says is acceptable is what that church accepts. Get the words of the priest or minister and you'll be fine.

In Christ,
Vlad

Do you ever have problems with people in the rear pews complaining "I can't see!!"?

If not, how are you avoiding that problem?

It seems the only way to avoid that with small props is to use a closed circuit camera and a monitor so everyone can see, ala David Copperfield.

From the Bob Kohler website regarding the Needle Swallowing effect and visibility:

But [I believe he meant to type "With"] such small props just how big of an audience can you perform the routine for effectively. The answer really comes down to lighting. With a spotlight the needles shimmer and reflect the light. In fact I believe they show up better than razor blades. Razor blades on edge are basically invisible. Teller KILLS with his version of the Needles at the Rio Hotel in Las Vegas before over 800 people!

Of course a backdrop helps with this in order to de-clutter the stage. Also, few churches have spots. But it can be done.

Terry

I personally think it's pretty Awesome that a bunch of us Gospel Magic folks can digitally rub shoulders with the likes of Osterlind. Appreciate your insight Richard

I was thinking the same thing.