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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 1704 Posts 
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I've decided to work through every item in "The Expert at the Card Table" and post my progress, no matter how pitiful, to my blog. You can read my first entry by clicking on the link below:
Exploring Erdnase (Part 1) Anyone else want to follow along with me? 
Marty |
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Gulyás Imre Miklós Regular user Budapest, Hungary 185 Posts
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Well about a month ago I returned to the two handed pass description. It was kind of revelatory. Erdnase really emphasizes this hinging action, which not many other sources do. Ive been relearning the classic pass by this instuction, it makes it good but unfortunately you cant really do a good riffle or similar covers, I found. So you cant really use this for color changes, but you get a certain kind of fast , no-movement-with-right-hand pass.
I took the Pledge
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Poof-Daddy Inner circle Considering Stopping At Exactly 5313 Posts
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Something you could do as a little ( actually a lot ) of extra reference is to check out the 7 DVD set (also comes with the book in paperback) " The Man Who Knew Erdnase " Simon Lovell and Wesley James http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/1656 Out of stock at penguin right now but check DVDs for sale or trade and place a WTB (want to buy) and I bet you can find a copy for sale. PM me if you can't and I will see what I can do.
Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure
Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased).  
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Jay Mahon Special user 983 Posts
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Those DVDs are a travesty. Forget them unless for a laugh or what not to do.
Not joking. Not trying to fan the fire. Lets keep videos out of it. |
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magicfish Inner circle 7036 Posts
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When it comes to Erdnase, stick with the book.
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Poof-Daddy Inner circle Considering Stopping At Exactly 5313 Posts
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Ok, ok, I digress. It was just a suggestion on another reference to the book.
Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure
Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased).
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts
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Those DVD's do the memory of Erdnase no favors.
The demonstrator does most of the moves wrong, and proves over and over again that he doesn't understand what Erdnase wrote. Why bother recommending DVD's to people if you know nothing about them? When it comes to Erdnase, all you need is the book. |
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 1704 Posts
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Quote:
When it comes to Erdnase, all you need is the book. This is my intended approach. I want to learn the moves for myself from the text directly, and not rely on a second hand interpretation. Using the DVD set to learn the moves would defeat the point of the project, and also severely reduce the learning experience. Poof-Daddy, I'm sure the DVDs in question have some merit, but reviews I've read about them have been mixed at best. For this reason, I'd suggest people study the book instead. Marty |
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Maximilien New user Paris (France) 41 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-04-17 01:26, silverking wrote: Well, I love books, but I would say that, like with great writers, you might need a companion. So I would also recommend Dai Vernon's Revelation and "The Annotated Erdnase". |
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 1704 Posts
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Good suggestion Maximilien. I do plan on getting the annotated versions of Erdnase by both Dai Vernon and Darwin Ortiz, but only after I've worked through all the material myself.
Marty |
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Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts
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Marty, I think your approach is right on. Looking forward to your insights and hearing about your progress.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
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Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts
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Ah, the Erdnase DVDs. I'm afraid I stand apart from the masses on this one. The DVDs, both the Ackerman and James sets, definitely have value if only indirectly.
If nothing else, they prove that the material is open to a wider interpretation. That as with most sleight of hand, there isn't just one way to skin the proverbial cat. If 100 top Erdnase practitioners demonstrated move X, there would probably be 101 different interpretations with little agreement on the source material. The text itself is ambiguous in many areas requiring each reader to apply some critical thought and ultimately jump to certain conclusions. That process shouldn't automatically invalidate any attempt to capture a given interpretation on DVD. Now that group think has taken hold there is a Pavlovian response to trash all the Erdnase DVDs anytime they are mentioned. Perhaps all the criticism is fully warranted. I'm no Erdnase scholar so I withhold judgement. But it does make me wonder how many people that openly despise these DVDs have legitimately formed their own opinion vs. just parroting what they've heard others say. With a couple of notable exceptions, the real value of Erdnase is not in the moves, which have largely been supplanted by improved techniques. For me, the best part of Erdnase is in the general advice he offers. There are a lot of timeless truths in the book that have nothing to do with the second deal Erdnase grip or stock shuffling. It's going to be fun to watch how this unfolds. Sounds like a great project, Marty, and I wish you all the best!
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts
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The Ackerman DVD's are very good (not excellent.....but very good).
The James DVD's are rife with moves performed improperly (not interpreted differently, just wrong), and demonstrations of moves which are show lack of skill or practice. But EATCT stands on its own. No need to worry about whether there's a contemporary equivalent to a move Erdnase describes......as you're not a card cheat anyway, and don't have to worry about "the latest move". This is a great undertaking, and promises much learning and good fun. Maximilien has a good suggestion with the annotations, although I find the Ortiz take to be the one to begin with, going to Vernon after acquiring a better understanding of EATCT itself. |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-04-17 09:42, Steven Keyl wrote: I agree - good post. There is something to be said for learning a technique and then adapting it to one's own style. And if I may add - learning a technique in your home and moving with a technique in front of people at a show are two different situations.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts
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If there is one move I wish I could master it's the Erdnase Color Change. I have a few reveals that could use that.
Hey, ever hear S.W. Erdnase was actually E.S. Andrews? Just wonderin'... Doug |
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 1704 Posts
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Quote:
Hey, ever hear S.W. Erdnase was actually E.S. Andrews? Just wonderin'... Nope, never heard that before.  |
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Juble Veteran user 363 Posts
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Sound like a great idea Marty. A few years back I started to do something similar (managed to get about 1/2 way through the book)and my copy is literally filled with scrawlings - it'll be interesting to compare notes! Also agree with the posts above; the Ackerman set was very good, Ortiz's annotations are excellent and the main value I found from the book was in its guidance and brilliant drop dead one liners!
Justin |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2539 Posts
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"Ability in card handling does not necessarily insure success. Proficiency in target practice is not the sole qualification of the trap shooter. Many experts with the gun who can nonchalantly ring up the bull's eye in a shooting gallery could not hit the side of a barn in a duel. The greater the emergency, or the greater the stakes, the greater the nerve required."
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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Juble Veteran user 363 Posts
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Quote:
On 2013-04-17 15:26, BarryFernelius wrote: my favourite quote from the book Barry!! |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2539 Posts
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"The art of card palming can be brought to a degree of perfection that borders on the wonderful. It is very simple to place one or several cards in the palm and conceal them by partly closing and turning the palm downward, or inward; but it is entirely another matter to palm them from the deck in such a manner that the most critical observer would not even suspect, let alone detect, the action."
One of my favorite quotes. 
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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Posted: Apr 16, 2013 05:24 pm 