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Rotten Special user 829 Posts 
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No disrespect but I skimmed past most of these posts as I am aware of said blah blah.
I bought a hades finger chopper some 18 years ago, give or take, and I created an original routine. Then, a few years later, I bought Harry Anderson's book and his routine influenced mine. Then I turned that influence into me. My point is that I learned Daryl's years ago. Now I learned these new moves and it has inspired a new routine from me. I have changed since I first learned my very first PNM. I hope so, I was 12 at the time. Today I did many hours with the DVD and my ropes and it was the fastest I have ever picked up a routine that I can remember. Add yourself to what is taught and it's gold! I'm very happy with my purchase. Bobs your uncle. |
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Octopus Sun Special user Wiggle Wiggle 586 Posts
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Just curious, all this talk about giving credit where due...
do you tell the layman at the end of your shows who to give credit to your act? just curious how one is supposed to give credit to the original creators of an act. I understand how to give credit in print and recorded media, but what about Your performances and shows? How do you give credit to those who you have chosen to use their methods? |
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maxnew40 Elite user 402 Posts
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I have been a musician for many years playing in cover bands (that is a band that covers music that was origianlly written and recorded by someone else than the performers). While you do sometimes announce who the song is by it isn't normal to do that for every song. I don't think giving credit to the original creators is a normal thing for a lot of performing arts except classical music and theater.
Do you do card tricks or cups and balls? If so who would you give credit to for originating them? -Max |
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jazzy snazzy Inner circle run off by a mob of Villagers wielding 2109 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-06-08 11:04, Duaut wrote: Absolutely not. They do not care nor do they need to know. Crediting applies when you are publishing a routine, handlings or elements of which were created by others before you IMHO. Crediting is important when you are advancing someone else's work. You are acknowledging the fact that without their ideas, you would not have your ideas. Personally, I avoid any references to the proper name of a routine or anyone else who uses it. If a layman hears the term "Matrix" for example, they can search for it on Youtube and learn a lot about it. I prefer to keep them in the dark and maintain the mystery.
"The secret of life is to look good from a distance."
-Charles Schulz |
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-06-08 11:04, Duaut wrote: Since I perform a lot for magicians, I practically give an infomercial on the effect I perform if its not my own creation. For the gen. public, I sometimes say that this effect was taught to me by a very famous magician. So, yes, I give credit whenever possible so as to differentiate from my original work which is most of my act. I suppose it is difficult if you are the regular magician who buys, learns and performs. -------- When I make a video or show an effect on video, I preface the originator in the descriptions area. I cite the originator and list their contribution.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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jazzy snazzy Inner circle run off by a mob of Villagers wielding 2109 Posts
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Yes Ian, when performing for other magicians credits are important.
"The secret of life is to look good from a distance."
-Charles Schulz |
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts
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The peril and frustration for me is listening to people praise these guys with "new" moves who don't give credit (since most of it isn't theirs. They take credit for being clever when all they have done is create a good video of someone else's work. They build up a fan base who deify them and then its hard to correct or say anything bad about their hero.
Sanders is modern and cool, George Sands was old (even when young) and not cool but amazingly original and clever.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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Octopus Sun Special user Wiggle Wiggle 586 Posts
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Thanks Jazzy, Ian.
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-06-08 16:49, jazzy snazzy wrote: Consider that a reputation is made during public shows and the most baffling effect is one that in magicians circles is known to be a Lance Burton effect. On this forum, that illusionist would be burned at the stake. Accused of ripping off an act. A simple acknowledgement or homage to Burton might be nice. A lot of people come out on a stage and just do their act without a preface. I consider magic as a whole to be like repertory theater or even Shakespeare. We are performing renditions of the masters of magic. Or perhaps even a dancer doing an interpretation of Swan Lake. You could credit the "master" in the program. This would elevate our craft to be at least like theater or dance. Even singers who do a song give credit to the author. Our craft should do the same.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts
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My presentation of a trick is a lie from beginning to end. The audeince doesn't need to hear the whole history lesson.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-06-10 17:06, Al Angello wrote: That lesson would put them to sleep anyway.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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Devious Inner circle 2120 Posts
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I was fortunate to have driven George Sands to a few I.B.M. Ring Meetings in Phoenix back in the mid 90's. He enjoyed mentalism more than anything else. He would light up when someone would work the ropes and never commented one way or another, just raised his index finger as if to want to suggest something and then relent. I remember Danny Archer in Scottsdale at a S.A..M. Lecture of his, once looking over to George and saying "George, you're still alive?" Kind of insensitive I felt. George seemed embarrased. I miss Sands.
R² |
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dukun New user 55 Posts
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I have the extended one..
oohh... I want the fiber optic original too.. |
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rsylvester Loyal user Trying to learn to BP a duck in 269 Posts
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I never looked at Fiber Optics as being a routine. I take a few that I like, I add them to other rope moves I've learned over the years. It moves so fast, when you take ends off, or a middle, then pop it back on, I've found people don't have time to process it, then you're onto the next one. I've gotten great reactions: people laugh, many say it's their favorite. It even includes, an old, old, old gag, which still gets a laugh. Probably the most amazing part.
Here's a practice video to show what I mean. Tell me what you think. All basic stuff, nothing new, but I've done this for many lay people and always received a great reaction. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gURCokSxGXA |
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-09-06 00:05, rsylvester wrote: Your routine is more "Sandslide" by George Sands than fiber optics. The Sands effect is (uncredited) part of Sanders.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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rsylvester Loyal user Trying to learn to BP a duck in 269 Posts
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Thanks! I take that to mean I'm on the right track.
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j100taylor Inner circle 1198 Posts
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Rsylvester - I really like how you ended clean by pulling the knot of the rope. Is that your idea?
Lakewood, Ohio
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts
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Rsylvester
You really got it going for you. My only complaint is if you have so many great moves to choose from there is no need to repeat yourself. I know there are an infinite number of ways to do the fabulous moves of George Sands, but try to hold yourself back from doing them ALL. You can do what I did, I split my favorite Sands moves up into two different routines. I do an improved PN, and a ring N rope routine using some ring moves found on Fiber Optics Improved.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-09-10 12:14, j100taylor wrote: That is a Sands move.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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rsylvester Loyal user Trying to learn to BP a duck in 269 Posts
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J100Taylor I'm guessing from those more knowledgeable than me it comes from Sands. I learned it from the book "Rope Eternal" by Dariel Fitzkee (copyright Daniel Fitzroy, 1956). I've been doing it that way for about 40 years, since I was 12.
Al: Thanks for the tips. I didn't realize I was using all the moves. There were many more that I didn't use. I just picked the ones I liked. In performing this, I find once you make the ends and middle switch, then you start taking the middle and ends off, it builds the comical crescendo. People giggle when the ends switch, laugh a little harder when the middle pops off and by the time I take the ends off, they're really laughing. While doing it strolling at a party, I even had someone tweet to all his Twitter followers that it was "hilarious" and "I can't believe what I just saw." That's why I keep those bits together. I think people see the PN, ends doing funny things and C&R as completely different routines. I added the show string and knot, because it's a cool way to finish "clean," as Taylor said. I want to add Linking Ropes and the ring 'n' rope from Fiber Optics. I just haven't gotten around to it yet. But now since you suggest it, I that's inspired me to move those up on my to-do list. Thanks to all for the encouragement, critiques and help. |
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Posted: Jun 8, 2011 03:25 am 