Disclaimer: This review may be colored by no small amount of buyer's remorse. I still feel queasy when I think about spending $800 on magic books.

I wasn't sure what to expect for $800 (Ooh. I need to stop saying that!). I suppose I expected some luxurious editions printed on sleek, glossy paper with color thumbtabs and decadent leather bindings, nestled snugly in a custom slipcase; wrapped for shipping like a precious Faberge egg. You know, a set of magic books you could never bring home to mother.

What I got were 5 jacketless books stacked one on top of another with only an L-shaped strip of cardboard sandwiched between one side of them and the bottom of the shipping carton. That being said, they arrived in acceptable condition. The bottom of each spine was slightly compressed but this is a minor quibble as that's something I would expect to occur over time anyway.

Dust jackets might have been a good idea since the book covers are an unattractive (in my opinion) shade of...well, I like to call it "pukey purple."

The spines on each book list only the volume number (1-5). They give no hint as to the contents, i.e. which issues or page numbers are contained therein.

There are no contents pages nor is there any comprehensive list of contributors or effects. This means you have to rely on 19 separate indices, all of which appear at the back of the last volume (instead of each one following the set of issues it serves to index). Even when you find the page number, you still then have to figure out to which of the 5 volumes it corresponds (as stated above, the spines are no help). Similar bound collections, such as Kaufman's "The Compleat INVOCATION", have offered a table of contents and a contributors/effects list up front. "MAGICK" is much larger and more unwieldy than "INVOCATION" and, thus, more in need of such helpful extras. It may have been a better creative choice to have reprinted each issue of "MAGICK" individually and to have offered the set in binders instead of bound volumes.

The type of paper used for the pages themselves is not the sleek and glossy variety that haunted my dreams as I awaited the books' arrival. The pages are fairly thick and will no doubt stand the test of time but they're not particularly pleasing to the touch. They stink. No, I mean they actually have an unpleasant aroma. Poring over these tomes is not a pleasant sensory experience.

I know nothing about the publishing industry so if anyone wants to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I will concede that point. Since some of my thoughts may be shared by others as ignorant as I, however, please allow me to "think out loud" (or perhaps just talk out of the wrong orifice):

Even bearing in mind such oft-quoted defenses as "free market", "capitalism", "supply and demand", yadda yadda yadda,
I'm not sure how the price of these books can be justified. I know the original material and the first bound versions were much sought after and have fetched high prices on eBay but this newly published collection of old material seems as no-frills as one can imagine.

There is a point to pricing magic material beyond the reach of the merely curious but $800 for books seems beyond the reach of most everyone these days. I feel fortunate to have had sufficient disposable income, especially at the height of the holiday season (these books were my Christmas gift to myself) but I have seen postings on this board from peers who agonize over spending $40 on an e-book. Did such people start saving their pennies once rumors of these "Magick" books surfaced? Did anyone expect this price for such a no-frills presentation? In this case, the pricing tactic may defeat its own purpose as some cyber "Robin Hood" now uses it to feel justified in offering these books as illegal pdf's.

I suppose some may claim that this original material had to be cleaned up, etc. for publication but we're not dealing with the restoration of DaVinci's Last Supper or the Dead Sea Scrolls here. "Magick" was a typewritten, photocopied 'zine. It was never that "pretty" to begin with. If some loving, painstaking restoration was indeed the aim of this project then why does the final product bear all the aesthetic charm of a mechanic's tool catalog?

Maybe one could argue that these volumes are designed to preserve "Magick" for historical purposes. Who, then, is the target audience- magicians, who want to read and use these books, or magic historians, who want to stash them on a shelf without opening (or smelling) them?

I am, no doubt, being presumptuous in asking this but, could the publishers still have made a reasonable profit by printing more copies and selling them for a fraction of the price? What makes me ask such an audacious question? Well...

...a couple of weeks ago I started a thread called "MAGICK at Barnes & Noble", after discovering the set as a pre-order on their web site!
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=15

It was such a tease and led me to believe I could order the set for $536.62 (3 day shipping included). It turns out B&N couldn't honor this deal and refunded my money but I can't help but wonder how/why such a thing appeared on their site in the first place. Did some B&N data-gathering program obtain a price from some publishing source? Does this mean that, at $536.62, B&N would still make a profit? What is their typical markup? Does anyone know?

At one point I thought of buying a second set of "The Compleat MAGICK" as an investment. That is, until I saw the actual books. As queasy as I am thinking about plunking down $800 (Ooh. I said it again.), I'd feel even more ill at ease if I found myself asking a kindred spirit to pay a penny more for these. That's what happens when you're raised Catholic.

There may be those who reply that "the set was worth every penny." Perhaps some may even declare, "I would gladly have paid double for these!" I am preparing myself psychologically to read such reviews. Yes, preparing myself- no money for a therapist any more.

In spite of the deficiencies of the presentation, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I will, of course, devour the contents. I just wish the menu didn't come in 19 parts.

Bottom line: "The Compleat MAGICK" by Collector's Workshop is no-frills yet pricey. Where I come from, those two descriptions shouldn't go together.

Oh, yes...and it smells...

...and it's "pukey purple"

Wow!
Your honest evaluation is very much appreciated!
I suspect you do not have to buy a second set "for investment purposes"....

RogueMD

The description you gave is the exact description of the originals.
No jacket, heavy dull paper, no index, etc, etc.

Nothing wrong with a reprint that duplicates the original editions.

For anybody with the original volumes, the look and feel of this reprint wouldn't be either a surprise or a disappointment.........in fact it's exactly what it says it is, a reprint!

This set has always been more about the words it contains than it has been about being a "pretty book"......perhaps you need to seek your joy in the contents rather than the binding.

Do you own this reprint?
Is this a review, or a review of a review?

I find his review honest, objective, and in no way dismissive of the material.

I do not have the new compiled edition by Collector's/Viking - but jad, some years ago -- talked and e mailed George about completing the project. I, as many I think, was afraid it would not be done in this lifetime -- an am ecstatic that George completed the project. The contents of Magick are among the most complete and most needed resources for professional mentalists that exist.

I purchased a complete set of the original newsletter format publications, including the sad last issue notifying subscribers of Bascom Jones death. It cost me a bit more to buy these three-hole punched loose-leaf volumes than what is being asked for the new issue -- and included all the "supplements" placed n the issued they came with.

It, like any newsletter or magazine -- had a bit of this, a smattering of that, dutch cross material jumping between pages, stuff that worked in they and stuff that worked, period. Unless you were very familar with the material the indexes were not helpful - - but referred to the "vocabulary" used by mentalists of the time -- and were not "cross indexed" for depth.

But, all this is well worth the limited edition preservation that George has put together. The contents should be closely held knowldge USED by working magicians and mentalists --- not sitting on some collector's shelf with a sole purpose of gaining $$ as a new conditioned resale. The true value here is the content AND ITS USE. Not matter how the paper smells ---

(To rid yourself of the small, enclose the volumes unstacked in a box with baking soda boxes (like you use in the refrigerator) for a while. You may want to riffle the pages in the box occasionally to let them air. I could almost bet the paper was imported by sea and absorbed the formerly pleasant salt air flavor of our planet.

I must add I rather value MindGuerrila's review of the printing process and presentation of the volumes as the content has been reviewed many times in the past. I too would like leather bound archival paper copies of this to preserve and sell some years down the road -- but production costs for such would be much more than then complete set sells for now. I know that when he acquired the rights George had in mind that WORKING magicians born about the time that these were being published would need the information a lot more than a leather binding.

This was not a cheap project to complete -- and I commend Collector's/Viking for their tenacity and taking the risk. Those who will not use this information, I guess, need not apply.

Well its great to read all those opinions...i think its wonderfull that we all are unique and different...paper stinks? :-D did not notice that...anyway...i actually love my set of those reprints...fine paper, nice binding...and at last complete in original format for a price much less than I paid for the former 4 books set...(preorder was even 100 less than retail now)

I bought these volumes and received them in fine condition and in an appropriate time frame. George Robinson Jr. returned my telephone query within 24 hours of my request.

I began writing a review about these books a week ago as I was surprised that no one was talking about them. I got side-tracked and hoped to get back to it tonight only to find this thread.

Most of Mind Guerilla's original comments are valid as to the production quality of the volumes. The reproduction is crisp and the resolution sufficient to the task. Frankly, I disagree with Mind Guerilla as to the glossy paper as it reflects light back into the reader's eyes and can have a negative impact the actual readability, but to each his own (not to mention that it doesn't reflect the original qualities of the loose issues).

As an owner of one of the Collector's Workshop compiled edition (Volume 4), I can state that the lack of a dustjacket and the design of the foilstamping on the spine and cover mimic exactly the previous edition. As noted, it would have been helpful to have the indexes available in the volume to which they refer. Even better would be to have them compiled into a single index that covered the entire series (something that is likely coming soon...).

Are these volumes pricey? Yup. Even if you took advantage of the pre-publication offer (which I did). That being said, the content is worth every penny to someone who is going to go out and use the material. I learned a piece in Issue One that I will use professionally. It is rare that I discover pieces that can go in my repertoire and usually that is with great pain adapting the piece for my market. Having it in facsimile (as opposed to the re-typeset experiment of the previous edition) is greatly appreciated as it retains the charm of the original (and this is from someone who has personally argued for & against facsimiles, having produced several).

The price issue is related to cost of production. This isn't always reflected in a work's physical structure but also in clarity of reproduction (scan quality/cleaning required), print run (smaller run = higher cost per piece) and anticipated demand. Could they have printed more volumes and priced it cheaper? Certainly. Would they be running a greater risk associated with the outlay of capital? You bet. As someone who has manufactured products for the magic marketplace I can tell you that, with the rare exception, nobody releases a magic project to get rich.

As an academic exercise (and a silly one at that), let's compare this collection to a recent high ticket set of books (Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks). [Disclosure: I own both.]

CERVON ($1000; 5 volumes; 7" by 9-7/8"; 1722 pages)
MAGICK ($795; 5 volumes; 8.5" by 11"; 2560 pages, 78 of which are the indexes)

Both sets were limited editions of 500.

Price per page (CERVON @ 69.125 sq. in. per page; MAGICK @ 93.5 sq. in. per page):

CERVON: 58 cents per page
MAGICK: 31 cents per page

That comparison doesn't add up however as the page size is different. Let's look at that math by square inch (we're becoming sillier by the minute):

CERVON: .008 cents per square inch
MAGICK: .003 cents per square inch

By this logic, MAGICK is less than half the cost of the CERVON volumes (presumably twice the value?).

You see how difficult it is to establish real "value" to either set. Frankly without Linda Cervon, L&L and George Robinson, Jr. we wouldn't have any of this material.

It is unfortunate that purchasers of the first compiled edition never got Volume 5 and hopefully there are plans to rectify this in the future. That being said, the relative rarity of the original issues (people seem to hold on to them for some reason) meant that I wasn't going to see any more than the volume I had for some time to come.

I really appreciate the opportunity to study, learn and perform material from these works. The fact that I had to make some difficult choices when faced with purchasing them only makes me value the volumes more.

Easily gained, easily discarded.

Any provider willing to supply me with a new legitimate edition of an out-of-print work at less than the cost to obtain the originals (if/when a set becomes available) is doing us a kindness.

Thanks to George Robinson for following through and making these available once again.

I assumed everyone was in shock.


My talk of glossy paper, leather bindings and Faberge eggs was purposely over the top to contrast the "Is That All There Is?" reaction I had to opening the shipping carton. Do you think the pages smell funny, by the way?

Your analysis of the costs shows you know much more about publishing than I do. Do you have any throries on that $536.62 price listed at Barnes & Noble?



What issue is that? The last issue in this set of books is #496 and doesn't appear to mention Bascom Jones' death. Does that mean this is really the "Incompleat MAGICK"?



Aside from my comments about the appearance and aroma, my main qualm with this set is the lack of a comprehensive index. I hope you're right when you say that one is likely coming soon...but from whom and...dare I ask..for how much?

Sleightly,
My compliments on your detailed analysis. You did everything but analyze cost as a function of weight.

PS: I would not bother. The value of the book should relate to its content and nothing more.

Drat! I knew I missed something... (Perhaps by the dram? Wait a minute, isn't that a liquid measurement?)

;O)

This, despite a blurb on the cover of Volume V that reads,
"Includes Complete Index for all Five Volumes"!

Sleightly,
Would that be a Greek dram or a Roman dram ?

Depends on the chorus...

Ba dum dum.

Thanks, I'll be here all night!

ajp

For the last week or so I have been chasing down some details about the run of Magick and have a few observations to share about "The Compleat Magick" as released by Collector's Workshop/Viking Magic.

I checked my volumes when I first received them and was surprised not to find any mention of the conclusion of the run. I was further concerned to read Greg's comments earlier in this thread about the final issue mentioning Bascom Jones' passing. Not having owned the originals, I had to ask myself: Is there something missing from this edition of The Compleat Magick?

In Magic Magazines of the Second Millenium, Stephen Fernandes lists an Issue #497 that was "intentionally issued without content" in 1994 (this collection runs through 496). It also indicates that a Bonus Insert accompanied the issue.

I spoke with Byron Walker about this omission and he indicated that he did indeed have an issue 497 which amounted to four blank numbered pages with a masthead and a closing picture of Bascom Jones and the conclusion dates of the magazine. He also mentioned that he did have a numbered bonus insert with Jones' obituary and a separate letter (unnumbered) indicating the conclusion of the run.

It should be noted as well that there are minute omissions made to the facsimile. For some reason, someone (presumably the publisher) elected to delete any reference to subscription information and Jones' contact address on the lower right corner of page four of each issue (the space is blank in the reprint). From what I understand, some crediting information referring to Lee Earle on page ii of the Index to No. 469-496 was omitted as well (this index was apparently published in Earle's Syzygy).

I'm not sure of the rationale for these omissions, but they shouldn't significantly affect their use as research materials. Most purchasers are likely interested in the magic & mentalism content of these works and such minutia will only be missed by a few nut-jobs (such as myself) who are interested in the complete and unexpurgated facsimiles of the magazine.

We have been very fortunate to see releases of some seminal magic publications printed in compendium form. Early on we saw Jinx & The Phoenix. More recently we had a run of other titles: Mahatma, Stanyon's MAGIC, Conjurer's Monthly Magazine, Hugard's Magic Monthly, Pallbearer's Review, The Chronicles, The Legendary Heirophant, Harry Lorayne's Apocalypse, Seance, and The Magic Menu to name just a few in my library. The Compleat Magick is the latest in this tradition. Expect to see at least two major publications from the '80s receive this treatment in the coming year (I had a small hand in these).

More often than not, today magic publications are being compiled and released in eBook format (most notably by Martin Breese but also recently by Todd Karr). The eBook format is wonderful for research purposes (especially being able to search the text), but I still prefer to have the printed versions on hand to actually sit and study.

In the last couple of years we have begun to see compiled versions dedicated to particular artists: Bruce Cervon's Castle Notebooks and The Essential Dai Vernon spring to mind.

A good compilation requires thought from the producer. It is especially helpful when you engage the services of a good editor and designer who not only reproduce faithful, quality images but consider how the consumer will use the product.

One example: The Essential Dai Vernon would have benefited from consecutive page numbering (in addition to the internal book page numbers) and a good table of contents.

The Compleat Magick would have benefited from a compiled index or by providing the facsimile indices at the end of the volume in which they pertained. The facsimile indices are fine to provide a record of the actual publications, but what about the person who wants to study all the submissions of one author? In the current work that will take substantially more work. I have been in touch with Viking Magic and hope to work with them to produce a compiled index available as a searchable PDF file to help students access the material more efficiently (and I am recommending that it be available free to anyone interested).

Am I happy with my purchase? Once again a "you betcha".

Do I wish there had been a little more care with making sure that this truly was "Compleat"? Yup.

Is this set a great value and wonderful opportunity for mystery entertainers to discover some truly practical and engaging material that has been limited to subscribers and a partial reprint? Yes sir!

As this was released in only 500 sets, I recommend if you are marginally interested in the material that you get these while they are still available.

So then:

-Not one single issue that appears in this collection is reproduced "exactly as published".
-The last issue, a tribute to Bascom Jones, is missing.
-There is no complete index (in spite of the claim on the cover of vol. V).
-The indexes do not appear in order of publication.
-There is info missing from one index.

Taken together with the way the books were packed in the box (no cushioning save for one thin strip of corrugated cardboard in mine), it's hard not to come away with the impression that the publisher really didn't put much thought into this project beyond "Copy them, bind them, charge $800 a pop for them, throw them in a box and ship them out."

I think this was a missed opportunity to give the material the respectful treatment it deserves.

I don't know why they didn't include dustjackets with a little index with this publication. If you want the exact look of the reprints you can throw away the dustjackets.

Not necessarily in order (my comments):

-Actually, the indices do appear in the order of publication (just not directly following the issues that they refer to.
-The last issue was not published by Bascom Jones (and I'm not sure it qualifies as a significant tribute).
-A complete index is included, it just isn't in compiled form.
-There is no info missing from any index, from what I understand it was merely a heading referring to the compiler (Lee Earle, who actually published this index which was not published by Bascom Jones).
-I can't speak to the "not one single issue" question as I have not personally examined each side by side, but no issue appears to be missing any of its "content", merely the subscription information and Jones' address (which I believe changed over the years).

I would suggest that if you have any purchaser has a significant gripe, that they contact the publisher to discuss a resolution. Otherwise I think we have covered most of any issues that might influence a purchase...

No, the first index was published after issue #26 but it does not appear after issue #26 in this set. It appears after the last included issue. This is not my idea of "in order". Are you suggesting we should be grateful that the indexes at least appear in consecutive order as opposed to random?



Oh, so there was a copyright problem? If it wasn't meant as a tribute to Jones, then what was its purpose?



No, 19 separate indexes does not one index make.



Why should anything be missing in a publication that claims it's offering every issue "exactly as published"? Are they using some new definition of the phrase "exactly as published" which I've been unaware of previously?



I would suggest the publisher stop their false advertising. I quote from Viking's site:

"MAGICK-THE COMPLETE UNABRIDGED SET IN FIVE VOLUMES."
"NOTHING LEFT OUT."

These statements are untrue.

Collecting individual indexes at the end of a volume (or volumes) is done to aid the reader of a compendium. If they had printed the first index after issue #26 as you suggest (to keep them "in order"), it would have added an unnecessary layer of complexity (read: headache) to the process as the student must go to the table of contents to find where the index is and then go to the index. If I had been involved with the preparation I would have recommended (at the least) collecting the indices and placing them in collected form (in order) at the end of each volume. As I have stated before, my preference would have been to compile all the indices into one master index (or several based on the source material) and place them at the end of the last volume. Your statement is hyperbolic and reflects your disappointment rather than a realistic approach to production.



I stand by my statement, emphasizing "significant". It would have been nice (and appropriate) to include it. Once again you make an example that is counter to one of your earlier complaints (that these should be reproduced exactly as Bascom Jones issued them). This issue was not published by Bascom Jones, so by your interpretation of the publisher's intent it should *not* be included. Yet, you say it should be in it. You can't have it both ways... My preference for inclusion should be clear...



Actually that statement is inaccurate, 19 separate indices does, in fact, make one complete index of the complete compiled volumes. All of the issues are indexed: the formatting of the indices reflect the original publication. As I have stated, I would have preferred a "new" index (perhaps following the facsimile reproductions) that contained all of the individual index information in a "new" compiled form. The "index" is the collection of the individually-printed indices for each section. In editorial terms, the material is there, it is just not organized in the most efficient manner.

More hyperbole.



I agree with you here. It seems unnecessary to omit this material (unless there were contractual requirements of which we are not aware, in which case the purchaser/reader should have been informed). This appears to be inexperience on the part of the publisher. I believe this is the first major publishing release by his company and he may have been following the lead the original publisher of the compilation (Collector's Workshop: Rich Bloch, Nick Ruggiero) established. I am extremely glad however, that Robinson *did not* follow the format of the re-typeset Volume 4 of his predecessors.



Did you actually suggest this to the publisher or just post it here?

I certainly agree that the publisher disclose any adjustments/alterations to the issues (such as those described). A thoroughly detailed (and accurate) description of the actual product (less any hyperbole) would be recommended. I think this thread will provide much more detail of what the books actually provide, but it would be beneficial if the producer provides it on his webpage (http://www.vikingmagic.com/?key=1723&html=full).

I think we've covered all of the salient details in this thread. If/when a compiled index becomes available I hope it will be provided free of charge (this is just good marketing), perhaps available in printed form and provided to the original purchasers free of charge...

Final thoughts: if you are aware of Magick, then the reputation stands and the material contained in these issues is what will determine the purchase; not the color of the books, the inclusion (or lack of) a dustjacket, the smell of the books or the manner in which they were shipped. All of these contribute to the ultimate stisfaction of the purchase experience, but fundamentally the material is what most are after. In this case, Viking not only delivers but is the first publisher to make good on providing a "Compleat" edition of Magick that provides all of the magical/mental/bizarre content that most have been waiting for since the conclusion of the run.

With the indices all together in vol 5, if I'm hunting for an item via the indices, I can pull vol 5 off the shelf and flip through all the indices to locate the item.

With your scheme, I'd have to start with vol 1, find the first index, search it, seek and find the next index, search it, etc. Then potentially repeat with vols 2, 3, 4 and 5. That's massively inefficient.

I agree with you that the books' production values are underwhelming. I agree with you that the lack of a master index is very disappointing. But I think your preference for interspersing the small indices throughout the five volumes is -- to put it mildly -- not well considered.