|
|
|
|||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 [Next] | ||||||||||
Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts 
|
Quote:
On 2007-07-04 18:00, Rappel wrote: You may not think it's stupid but you certainly aren't generating any interest in your side of the argument which, to me at least, speaks volumes. I still don't see how this is an ethical question. Silly Billy has an act which he properly advertises and is very up front about. People interested in booking such a performance call him up and agree on a time and place for it to occur. He arrives, performs the show, collects his fee and leaves. Everyone is happy except for you. And even, if for some reason we could find a valid reason why Silly Billy shouldn't be doing these performances what are you going to do about it? In the end it is Silly Billy's and only Silly Billy's decision to offer and perform these shows.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
|
|||||||||
wa-na-be Veteran user 355 Posts
|
I have met "Silly Billy" AKA David Kay at Kidabra. He discusses his reasoning for the Dr Blood show, and as stated in a previous post he has tapped into an older group of kids. I can also say that many children entertainer books will state that it is best to stay away from "dangerous tricks and illusions" but, that is normally stated for very young audiences.
Sammy Smith "Little Patter for Little Feet" "Performing Magic for Children" David Kay " Seriously Silly" goes into this also! |
|||||||||
|
Banester Special user 669 Posts
|
I think Dr. Blood is rather gross, my opinion. And ya, some other people probably feel the same way I do. Now just think about that one parent who brought thier kid to the show and is now totally freaked out about it! You can't tell me you have never ran across someone squimish about blood can you?
This isn't an ethical question he asked, but whether it was right or wrong. Sure the parent who booked the show knows all about what to expect, does everyone else who is invited know? I have Silly Billy's book and I think he has some great stuff and I learned a lot from his years of experience, but Dr. Blood is not my cup of tea. Can some of you honestly say that your customers right now would go for you doing a show like that? Great if it works for Billy, but I think it is too risky. Payne brought up about kids in todays world. Are those the same ones who are shooting each other in schools? Or beating each other let alone some other things I will not say here. Is that the tolerance you are referring to? I don't see why you are blasting this guy for posting something that he is concerned about!?!? Quote:
And even, if for some reason we could find a valid reason why Silly Billy shouldn't be doing these performances what are you going to do about it? In the end it is Silly Billy's and only Silly Billy's decision to offer and perform these shows. Couldn't be more true. If it works for him then great all the more to him, if it didn't he would be looking for another job, but to say that something is ok just because it sells really doesn't make sense does it?
The art of a magician is to create wonder.
If we live with a sense of wonder, our lives become filled with joy -Doug Henning- |
|||||||||
|
Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2007-07-25 09:38, Banester wrote: In a culture that gives a PG rating to movies that glorify mindless violence but an R rating if it shows a single naked breast I don't think we really have to worry that Silly Billy's tame Dr. Blood act is going to make serial killers out of his audiences. Many of us grew up watching mindless mayhem in Looney Tune Cartoons or scary monsters in the movies at Saturday Matinées. The doctor Blood act is really no different than these types of shows. Quote:
Because it's not cool to come in and blast a performer for no other reason than he's performing an act you don't like. There are certain types of magic that I find highly questionable but I'm not in here saying I think so and so should stop performing because he's doing an act I don't like. Quote:
It does if you wish to live in a free market society where we are all responsible for our actions.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
|
|||||||||
|
wa-na-be Veteran user 355 Posts
|
I have purchased Kidabra's Halloween DVD set, it has a performance of Dr. Blood on the DVD. He told the audience that he would do a routine as Dr Blood and explained that this is for older kids. There were some youth there for the show and they seemed to enjoy it. He preformed his spike through tongue and a finger chopper routine, after he did the tongue bit. It was not that bad, I've seen worse on regular TV.
|
|||||||||
|
JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts
|
I see several subjects here, not one. I see the subjects of legality, morality, responsibility, and practicality. I see all those subjects being argued as one. You guys are truly the blind men and the elephant. Selling someone without full disclosure is immoral and unethical. My understanding here is that his clients are given full disclosure. I think the potential for lawsuits, frivolous or otherwise is ripe here and I wouldn't touch it, but then I have that right, just as he has the right to do it if he so pleases. There is nothing immoral about either choice. True greatness and true disaster ride the exact same edge. You rarely know which horse you are on till the ride is over.
|
|||||||||
|
stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2007-07-26 10:54, JackScratch wrote: Huh? Generally, one of the few things in life I know about is which horse I'm riding. And of course ethical questions are multi-faceted. That's the nature of ethical questions. That's why there are philosophers. Of course, the world would probably be better off without philosophers, but that's another question. I find this discussion interesting, precisely because there are so many issues at stake: artistic integrity, child raising, vulgarity and the movie rating system, blood, and horses. Jeff (I always know which horse I'm riding. Always.) |
|||||||||
|
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27302 Posts
|
I take it this guy gets kids to reenact scenes from Saw and Silence of the Lambs?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
manal Inner circle York ,PA. 1412 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2007-06-27 19:35, Rappel wrote: This guy asks for a discussion without arse rippin and he gets a padload of arse rippin.... Grown ups..... sheesh... |
|||||||||
|
Patriot Regular user 112 Posts
|
Dennis Michael, Ken Scott and I probably among the few here who have actually seen David's Dr. Blood act performed live in front of pre-teens and teens...and it is my pleasure to say that it ROCKED. The kids had a great time. Every parent was right in there with the kids. His program is presented with a professional quality that transcends the perceived "gross" nature of the program. There is absolutely no way to describe this quality. You simply have to see it for yourself to understand.
The closest I can come is that it's rather like when I was a kid, we'd go to Friday Midnight showings of the great monster classics...the ones that promised free tickets to future shows if you stayed in your seat through the entire showing. Halfway through the feature the film would break and the "monsters" would storm in to the audience. "Blood" would squirt out of special ejectors. Mice and snakes would roll over your shoes. Spiders and webs would drop from the ceiling. In the 60's this was good, clean fun. It's a new century; David has just ramped the old TV Ghoul personality up a few notches to match the current preteen climate. He expertly draws his entire audience right into the whole mad scientist lab fantasy and makes it FUN! I'd suggest that until you DO see David's actual performance that you stow away your preconceived puritanical notions and leave the man be. It works for him in spades. In over 4 or 5 years of presenting this show, there is not one single report of a child harming himself or another following David's "example"...because of the way it is presented. What you're doing is ABSOLUTELY NO different from the Bible-thumping, hymn-humming holy rollers who want to burn the Harry Potter books and films without having read a single page. Watch one of his performances THEN state your opinion from an educated level. The noive...! |
|||||||||
|
Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2007-07-26 10:54, JackScratch wrote: The one we appear to be riding in this post is the one that was beaten to death a few months ago with a stick.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
|
|||||||||
|
JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts
|
There seems to be an issue, in this community ,with understanding the difference between literal and metaphorical meanings. In the future I will try to restrain myself to using monosyllabic words and rudimentary concepts such as "see spot run". If that proves to be to much, then we can simply degenerate to grunts and pointing.
In short, what this guy is doing is neither "wrong" in any normal sense of the word, nor is it something I would suggest that just anyone try. |
|||||||||
|
stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2007-07-27 10:15, JackScratch wrote: To whom are you directing this comment? Me, because I didn't understand your horse metaphor? I REALLY didn't understand it, truly I didn't. And maybe I'm an idiot, or retarded, or whatever. But I didn't understand it. Quote:
In the future I will try to restrain myself to using monosyllabic words and rudimentary concepts such as "see spot run". If that proves to be to much, then we can simply degenerate to grunts and pointing. Thank you. That would be helpful for idiots like myself. Quote:
In short, what this guy is doing is neither "wrong" in any normal sense of the word, nor is it something I would suggest that just anyone try. Exactly. Which is exactly what I meant when I said that ethical questions often involve shades of meaning. So let us discuss them. You come along and say that everyone is confusing a dozen different issues, and say something about not knowing which horses are being ridden, and then say that some people (me?) don't understand what a metaphor is and that you'd be better off grunting and groaning. Maybe you would. I see this issue thusly: what Silly Billy does in his Dr. Blood show pushes the limits of what might be called "good taste." But no one really accepts that there is such a thing as good taste any more in our Britney/Paris/Lindsay world. So some people jumped on the original poster, horrified that he should question whether the Dr. Blood show is in good taste--or even worse, bad for children. Now, I don't know anything about the Dr. Blood show other than what I've seen on the website. It doesn't bother me. But maybe that says something about me. Maybe I don't have good taste. (Rant on) What sickens me about relativism is the constant assertion of the truth of relativism. Relativists want to have their cake and eat it too. They say, "hey, none of your business, don't talk about it, let everyone decide for themselves", not realizing that they are preaching a TRUTH, the truth of relativism. (Rant off) And I STILL don't know what any of this has to do with horses. Because I'm stupid. At least I'm smart enough to admit it. Jeff |
|||||||||
|
Banester Special user 669 Posts
|
Jeesh, everyone keeps saying get off Billy's back, but all the original poster said was:
Quote:
Don't get me wrong, he's a wonderful clown/magician, I just disagree with his Dr. Blood act. Dr. Blood is something unique and Billy is doing great with it. Obviously he has not had any problems with parents. Would you incorporate it into your birthday bashes? I would be scared to death to put that in even with telling the parents (don't forget the rest of the guests have no idea what to expect). To me it just offers way to many risks. Maybe with business insurance it would cover your butt in the event that a parent wasn't happy about it and you get slapped with a lawsuit. I recall one time I made a joke about a cat (nothing that I thought was bad)and I got an earful after ward from someone who is a cat fanatic! I myself find it safer to avoid something that could be construed as something else. At yes that is all just my opinion.
The art of a magician is to create wonder.
If we live with a sense of wonder, our lives become filled with joy -Doug Henning- |
|||||||||
Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2007-06-28 01:31, Payne wrote: Payne, Payne, Payne ... I think you are so wrong about this. Time and time again we read in the papers and see on the news how not only kids, but even adults attempt to duplicate what they see their "hero" entertainers do. Remember all the kids who started "car surfing" after the movie "Teen Wolf" was released? There was another film whose name escapes me about football players who demonstrated their machismo by lying in the street along the lane divider lines while traffic whizzed by. Kids across the country started doing it. "Ghost Riding," in which people jump/dance/ride on a moving vehicle without a driver was (and maybe still is) copied by kids after being popularized in the song "Tell me when to go" by rapper E-40. After "Animal House," toga parties popped up everywhere. Who ever heard of them before? When I was a kid, the TV show "Kung Fu" and Bruce Lee movies had every 12-year-old side kicking his buddies. Fight clubs. "Jackass" stunts. Pro wrestling "smackdowns". The news reports people attempting these dangerous activities all the time after seeing entertainers' perform them! I can't believe that you actually think kids are not influenced, and won't try to duplicate, what they see a performer do. |
|||||||||
|
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27302 Posts
|
I don't know that argument has much validity.
Really... we don't often see kids nailed to crosses now do we?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
|
Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts
|
I never said they would copy everything ... that's absurd. Of course you can point to a specific action and say "See? They didn't copy that!" That doesn't mean that ther is no influence. You're argument is irrelevant.
I just gave 8 examples of things people duplicated after seeing them in moves or on TV -- and these were just off the top of my head, things I personally have seen, or have seen reported -- and you say it had no validity just because you can come up with one extreme example that someone has NOT duplicated? My example were widespread -- do a websearch and I'll bet you'll find all kinds of verified sources. Just because everything a magician does isn't attempted by someone doesn't negate the fact that entertainers have a HUGE influence over the behavior of their audiences. |
|||||||||
|
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27302 Posts
|
I understand what you posited and happen to disagree with the implied principle. IMHO the issue has been with us for as long as we have existed and what we are seeing in our society recently is more a symptom of child neglect than any particular form of stimulus.
We have always had a proportion of our society which is unstable and likely to act out. Whether they take their cues from the TV or from movies or from what they see the butcher do at the shop or what they see on the news is not so relevant as that they are left to do such things when young and encouraged by peers to do such things when older. Again IMHO this may be a symptom of some cultural de-sensitization to social (and perhaps even human) values. Look carefully at our language used describe violence (neutral and distant) and our language used to describe issues associated with reproduction (dirty, bad...) and then take a look at our humor. 
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
|
Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts
|
Then you're burying your head in the sand. People -- especially kids -- copy what they see. In the karate example I gave, kids everywhere were doing this, acting like Caine from the TV show. We weren't neglected; we were kids doing what kids do. Kids also do wrestling moves they see on TV. It's not neglect, and it's a fact that it happens. This is NOT my opinon. It happens. You can disagree and deny it all you want, but facts are facts regardless of the source.
You can choose to say the world is flat, but that doesn't change the truth. And the truth is people copy what they see. Can you honestly tell me that people are NOT duplicating things they see on "Jackass?" Because if you are, I'm up the the challenge of siting many reliable news sources. |
|||||||||
|
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27302 Posts
|
Without getting into details, as best I understand the younger species, children imitate behavior they see as getting a positive response. They want attention and have tremendous creativity and energy to do stuff to get that attention. Good grief why else would they get online to chat with strangers?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
Posted: Jul 5, 2007 01:31 am 