A post by Jim Gerrish got me intrigued by this apparantly long lost prop, the Kuma Tubes. It seems to be a predecessor to the square circle, but if the descriptions I am reading are accurate, it sounds much more impressive to me.

Trouble is, it seems to be a very rarely used item. Owens Magic has them listed on their website. I called in. They have none in stock, but when they make them they are $1250 and are sold with a bench that is also $1250. I searched several major dealer websites, to no avail.

The prop is explained in Okito's 1921 book "Quality Magic." This book goes for hundreds of dollars as it is of course, old and out of print.

That's as much as my internet searching has learned. Even the discussion here on the Café is limited.

Is there a reprint of this book anywhere? Is anyone making these for less than 4 figures? Is it indeed as magical as the myth in my head has now made it to be?

You might find a used set of U.F. Grant's "Nu Way Kuma Tubes". This is a practical version improved by typical Grant thinking and the addition of the Black Art Principle and a vanishing/reappearing fish bowl finale!

Really, if you have the Okito book. You can make your own set. The handling is important.

I just made silks for an Owen's set for Jody Baron. It is really seen nowdays. Dip Yip Louie used to do a great turn with it. He made his own set also.

Basically, find the vase and then have tubes made. I can help with that if needed.

Richard

Thanks Richard.

I don't have the book, it is an antique, and commands an appropriate price.

I just want to see what it looks like being done. I don't know that I want to do it before I compare it to a square circle. If it's leaps and bounds more magical in appearance, it's worth pursuing.

The kicker for me is the idea of the produced bowl being bigger than the tubes. Is this just a large version of ball and tube?

I have found a set in the UK online, for an affordable price, just one I want to be sure about before I commit.

I realize I am answering my own question here: Penn and Teller's DVD Magical Mystery Tour is supposed to have this effect on it, as one they observe. I am renting it on netflix. So that should help with the "seeing what it's all about. "

Antonio Molini's Organ Pipes (Rice Volume 1 Page 206 or Tarbel, Vol. 6, page 379) contains the basic concept, although it is believed (not proved) that the Kuma tubes are of a more ancient Chinese origin. Just get rid of all the organ pipes but two and you have the basic idea. Start with a spherical shaped goldfish bowl of plastic (Dollar Store- look for storage containers) and find a tube that just covers it- perhaps a Dollar Store cylindrical storage container. Find another cylindrical tube that just fits over the first one and PM me when you're ready.

Thanks spellbinder for the detailed reference work. I feel like I am getting closer and closer, but things keep getting in the way.

I have the Tarbell CDROM from Lybrary. It is laid out like the original course, and only has what is now printed as Volumes 1-5. I will have to pick up vol6 in print. That will be much more affordable than the Okito book.

Just a thought here, don't know if it will help or not.

At one time I was considering making up a set of Organ Pipes, and thought that PVC pipe might be a good way to go. It comes in about a dozen different diameters, is easy to cut and is probably almost indestructable.

This might be a easy and inexpensive way to make up a set of Kuma Tubes. SETH

In the continuing saga, I found a copy of Okito's book from a dealer in the UK. It has several pages missing due to a misprint, but the section I want is intact. It is a few pounds/dollars.

He also has a 1986 reprint of this in case anyone's interest was sparked by this discussion. PM me for his info.

I figure PVC will be the way to go too seth. Lucky for me I know several contractors and a building supply shop owner, so I may be able to find pieces without buying 10 feet at a time. I see what someone meant by comparing it to the making of force decks. Need 52 to make one.

Maybe I'll end up with tons of pipe and post on the workshop that I have square circle/kuma tubes/organ pipes raw materials for cheap!

Thanks to everyone for the help in this thread.

Well, if you do go with the PVC, you should have plenty of stuff left over for spare parts!

Incidentally, I cut up some PVC once, using a hacksaw, and it wasn't a pretty sight. Then I discovered that Home Depot sells a special knife gizmo for about $10 that's designed specifically for cutting PVC pipe. It works like a charm, but will only handle PVC pipe up to 1-1/4" in diameter, and my guess is that you will need something bigger than that. But there must be another, larger cutter gizmo for the larger stuff. Most Home Depots will make one cut for free (so you can fit the stuff in your car), and then charge some trifling sum for each additional cut. It might be worth asking about that if you go this route. Then at least all the cuts will be perpendicular and all the pieces will be exactly the same size.

Let us know how your Kuma Tubes come out! I remember seeing the ad for the "Nu-Way Kuma Tubes" in an old U.F. Grant catalog, and always thought it sounded like a neat trick. SETH

I would make the tubes out of sheet metal. It would be lighter and then cover it with fabric or sign vinyl.

Craig Snader reprinted "Quality Magic" by Okito. That is the edition, I have.

If you could get one of the old National or Sherms lota bowls, they would look great in this effect.

Richard

Johnny Platt also did the Kuma's

For those interested here is the Owens link:


http://www.owenmagic.com/Club___Stage/Club___
Stage_3/club___stage_3.html

My Kuma Tubes were sold by Stevens' Magic. They are very nice and cost a fraction of the price of Owen's version. I'm not sure they even sell them anymore, but if you can find a set I think you will be pleased.

Amos McCormick

Wow this brings back memories. I have an old set of U.F. Grant Nu Way Kuma Tubes that I used to use in the 70's. You rarely see this effect performed.
David Lawrence

I finally saw the performance on the Penn and Teller world tour DVD.

Why is this so rarely used these days?

Is it difficult to execute in terms of sleights/misdirection?

Did the square circle replace this as a "self-working" effect?

The book dealer in the UK that had the reprint of Okito's book has not been good with emails. I would love for him to get back to me so I can start understanding the principle behind the workings of this effect.

The main reason is that is requires a table prettty much deicated to that trick and you have work with water. Most guys don't want to fool with that. It also takes a little practice for the routining. It is the same with my Atomic Cocktail Shaker. Too many magicians are lazy I this area.

Richard

I don't think Okito used tables for his loads. When magicians trended away from using assistants, they restricted several possibilities.

Any time spent pursuing this routine is time (and money well spent).

For many many years it was our prefered closing, and I still sometimes perform it.

It is so adaptable, especially as kregg so rightly points out, if you use an assistant. However as a solo piece it is still brilliant.
Great also for corporate events where you can with imagination produce "products" ""banners with logo's slogans etc".

There is a possibility that we will be writing up our handling / routine some time in the future. Details via the link below.

timothy

I didn't use a special table nor did I use water. I produced tons of silks of ever-increasing size, five umbrellas, rice, a forty-foot silk streamer, a 6-foot butterfly silk, and my eight-year-old daughter.

Amos McCormick