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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts 
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About the color change we used to call 'Erdane Change', Roberto Giobbi wrote as below in Vol.3 of Card College.
Quote:
This color change is an invention of the legendary escape artist Harry Houdini, although it has often been mistakenly attributed to S.W. Erdnase, due to his fuller and more visible description of the sleight in The Expert at the Card Table. Although I checked Elliot's last Legacy, I was not satisfied yet to call 'Erdnase Change' as 'Houdini Change'. So I have been looking for other sources which clarifies the fact. Today, I found the writting about this matter by Victor Farelli in June 1948 issue of The Magic Wand. Farelli was shown the sleight by Houdini. Houdini was angry that Selbit published the sleight without Houdini's permission. Farelli talked with Selbit about this matter and Selbit admitted he had omitted credit to Houdini in "full of confidence of youth". So, I confirmed that this great sleight was invented by Houdini. If you know related story, please let me know. Hideo Kato |
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Mustang Veteran user London, England 316 Posts
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I thought the Houdini colour change was slightly different. I will PM you the details of the colour change I have in mind for reasons of exposure.
"A magician is one who appreciates the difference between knowing how a trick is done, and knowing how to do a trick."
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JuanTheMan New user 27 Posts
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Wow - if Erdnase is actually Houdini, just think how many of us have misquoted this colour change!!! Would you mind PMing me the details of the Houdini colour change too? Obviously, I don't know the differences/silimarities but, if it were something as simple/subtle as "the little finger is bent at a right angle" rather than "the little finger is bent at 45 degrees", I don't know if it would truely be regarded as a different technique. I'm really fascinated by the History of Magic and, in some ways, would like to travel back in time to the era of the real Greats to see them in action and speak with them about their discoveries. Alas, that's not possible - yet!
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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts
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I read expanation of Houdini Change in The Elliot Last Legacy and Farelli's expanation of Houdini Change in The Magic Wand. I don't see any notable difference with the first method of ones Erdanse explained in Expert at the Card Table.
As most of you have CC by Roberto Giobbi, please read Houdini Change in Vol.3. Roberto Giobbi titled it 'Houdini Change'. Hideo Kato P.S. You can travel back in time by reading old magazines. |
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WRandall Regular user NYC, USA 121 Posts
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There are two things about this that I find unusual:
1. that Houdini didn't publish the move himself. We all know that Harry wasn't one to hide his light under a bushel, so it's kind of amazing that research is now being done to GIVE him credit for something. 2. that he isn't credited with even more card sleights than this. Usually one creative idea in a particular field leads to another and another. For instance, you can follow his train of thought from the handcuff act, to the strait-jacket, to the milk can, to the Water Cell. It seems a little odd that Houdini would have this one great card sleight and not have a family of sleights to go with it. Maybe it's just because he spent his creative time thinking about other stuff, or maybe this is the one sleight he invented that stood out as being original. At any rate, I'm not disputing that Houdini invented this color change, because I prefer to believe that it's his and that he came up with it during his years as the King of Kards. Mr. Kato, would that be about the time he would have developed it? Thanks, Will |
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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts
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I did not conclude that this sleight was invented by Houdini, but it is Roberto Giobbi who clearly stated it as Houdini's invention.
I could not believe it 100%, so I checked Elliot's Last Legacy and The Magic Wand, and the percentage of belief has risen to 90% (in my mind). Then I posted this here to seek other information with regard to this matter. If my first post sounded I concluded that it was Houdini's invention, I must amend it. Hideo Kato |
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Mustang Veteran user London, England 316 Posts
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Didn't Houdini edit Elliot's Last Legacy? If so, there may be some clues there, I too agree that Houdini was far from the humblest of people, and such a creation would probably have been published in a number of places with his named slapped all over it don't you think? Also not saying he didn't invent it... just a curiousity...
"A magician is one who appreciates the difference between knowing how a trick is done, and knowing how to do a trick."
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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts
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Yes, Houdini was the editor of the Elliot's Last Legacy. He stated that contents in the book are absolutely original.
In page 133 and 134, there is the following. Quote:
Two Effective Moves Hideo Kato |
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WRandall Regular user NYC, USA 121 Posts
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Quote:
Two Effective Moves A Houdini Top Change? I'd be interested to know more about this. Any big difference b/t his TC and the classic TC? |
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Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts
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Re:
"he had omitted credit to Houdini in "full of confidence of youth". " What a quaint phrase...  |
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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts
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I really don't understand the meaning of "full of confidece of youth". I quoted it from Farelli's writing without changing words.
Does it sound similar with "in the rashness of youth"? Hideo Kato |
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rawdawg Special user Southern California 686 Posts
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Darwin Ortiz also states in his "Annotated Erdnase" that the move in question is actually Houdini's.
One time, when I was young, I botched a sleight so bad, Vernon, Marlo & Miller rolled over in their graves. But I didn't see Elmsley, probably because he was behind the others.
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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts
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Thanks rawdawg-san for the information.
I will check "Annotated Erdnase" today. Hideo Kato I checked "The Annotated Erdnase" by Darwin Ortiz and , in it, I found the quote from "The Magician's Handbook" by P.T.Selbit (1901). Quote:
P.T.Selbit wrote : So, It was my mistake that I wrote Selbit omitted credit to Houdini. He mentioned Houdini as his source of the sleight. However, he did not get permission from Houdini to publish it in the book. So far I gathered the information which tells or suggests the move was invented by Houdini. 1. "The magicians Handbook" by P.T.Selbit. 2. "Elliot's Last Legacy" edited by Houdini. 3. An article by Victor Farelli in June 1947 issue of Magic Wand. So my belief on this matter risen to 99%. If the remaining 1% is the truth, it means what? Hideo Kato |
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WRandall Regular user NYC, USA 121 Posts
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Okay, the mystery is over. I communicated with the spirit of HH last night, and he cleared this all up for us: it's his sleight. More suprisingly, he's also taking credit for the double turnover, the S.W.E. Shift, Channing Pollack's bird act, and Copperfield's Flying. Who knew?
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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts
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Bess should have envied you as the spirit of HH had not appeared in front of her.
The mystery is never over as nobody knows 100% truth. Hideo Kato |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16551 Posts
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When I wrote this while talking about Erdnase I did not know then the Color Change was Houdini’s.
Posted: Jul 11, 2004 1:23pm It is a mystery to me why the magicians around at the same time as Erdnase did not discover who he was. Guys like Harry Houdini in particular who wrote his first book about such characters. It exposes crooks, confidence men, etc. “THE RIGHT WAY TO DO WRONG” - Harry Houdini: 1906. That’s just four years after Erdnase 1902. I think I am right in saying Houdini used the Erdnase Color Change. If so he had an interest in Erdnase. Maybe he did and kept the secret. Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Steve Friedberg Inner circle 1402 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-06-23 13:06, WRandall wrote: Only one problem: Marlo beat him to it...especially on the double turnover.
Cheers,
Steve "A trick does not fool the eyes, but fools the brain." -- John Mulholland |
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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts
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Selbit's Magician's Handbook was published in 1901, one year before The Expert At The Card Table, and Selbit, in it, mentioned "For the knowlege of the movement I am indebted to my friend Mr.Harry Houdini".
So it would be appropriate to consider that Houdini had not learnt the sleight from Erdnase. Hideo Kato |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16551 Posts
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It is appropriate to consider that Erdnase had learnt the sleight from Houdini via Selbit's book, or even from Houdini himself. I find it strange that Erdnase did not give credit to Houdini. Also I find it strange that Houdini, as far as I know, did not make large on the bills that he eduucated Erdnase to some extent.
Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Lance Pierce Special user 878 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-06-24 09:48, tommy wrote: It's a bit of a leap to think that Erdnase learned directly from either Houdini OR Selbit's book. It's more likely that the move was "around," and a lot of people knew it. Erdnase (assuming he actually wrote the second half of The Expert At The Card Table -- there's a little room for doubt on that) may have learned the move from some duffer on the road (just like most moves learned today by magicians aren't learned directly from the originator or even books or video, but from seeing someone else do it who saw someone else do it who saw someone else do it who bought it off of Penguin Magic, so NONE of them knows where it really came from). Or...it could actually be a case of independent invention -- a radical thought, I know. It's also quite a leap to think that Houdini could have made any hoo-hah about educating Erdnase, because it's not for certain that he even knew who Erdnase was. While the book got around, it wasn't on every cardman's bookshelf like it is today...that happened because of Vernon's constant espousing over decades of the merits of the work, which was much later. Let's say Houdini did try to capitalize on an association with Erdnase...what would that have gotten him? What would the public say other than: "Wha-? Who?" If we can take Erdnase at his word, he specifically wrote that he "betrays no confidences" in exposing what he does. Of course, he wrote that in the FIRST half of the book. Nothing is certain. |
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Posted: Jun 21, 2005 11:23 am 