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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10800 Posts 
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Fascinating conversation. Jon T thank you for your comments and insight. Your knowledge of the history is always deep and helpful. Crediting does matter and should matter.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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Magic Mark Inner circle After this post I will have 1556 Posts
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For those that haven't been paying attention to what is happening with regard to electronic dice, see GoDice at Kickstarter:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/192......imagined For $69 you get 6 rechargeable electronic dice that communicate with your IOS or Android device via Bluetooth. Who should get "credited" for those? Mark
Doing tricks can be easy, being an entertainer is much harder.
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10800 Posts
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Mark you’re asking a bit of a goofy question.
A creator *should* at a minimum TRY do their very best to credit As thoroughly as possible, when they can. And when it’s appropriate they should make an effort to get permission from the creator, and as I said when it’s appropriate. This has been a fundamental tenet within the Magic community for decades. There are many great resources, and Max Maven, Jeff McBride and Ross Johnson (among others) have been a huge help for me when (and if) I needed to seek some help on deeper history. Your question makes no sense.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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Magic Mark Inner circle After this post I will have 1556 Posts
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I believe that ProMystic was the first magic company to offer a 'Mental Die' type of product that was, arguably, inspired by Anverdi's idea. I don't know if ProMystic has ever commented about the inspiration for their product. (Side note: Anverdi was also first with Color Match!)
Marc Antoine's contribution to Anverdi's 'Mental Die' was to use 3 dice. When Marc introduced his product there were a number of people on this forum that were quite indignant over Marc "ripping off" ProMystic's idea. Now Murphy's has released a 3 dice version and we have some folks that are apparently unhappy about Murphy's "ripping off" Marc Antoine. The way I see it, they ALL owe credit to Anverdi. So far, it appears that Murphy's is the only one giving that credit. As the Anverdi rights holder since 2010, Murphy's could have been real difficult about it and pursued legal action against other companies. They didn't. And along the theme of "ripping off" other's ideas... Take note that Marc Antoine is now offering an "Easy Box" (on/off box) with this latest version of Mental Dice. It's a magnetic storage box for the 3 dice that automatically turns the dice on and off when they are removed or replaced in the box. Now, wander over to the ProMystic website and take at look at the magnetic storage box that PM has been including with their Real Die product since before Marc's new Easy Box. Who's "ripping off" who? What I do know is it appears Murphy's has created a superlative version of Mental Dice that addresses a couple of the more significant shortcomings of Marc's version. Namely, rechargeable dice and automatic dice power on/off when the receiver is turned on/off. And Murphy's is offering it at a significantly lower price. Build a better mousetrap and the world.... Someday (maybe soon), someone will come along with an even better and even less expensive version?! How difficult can it be for someone to take a set of GoDice and create a dedicated thumper receiver? Mark
Doing tricks can be easy, being an entertainer is much harder.
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 11, 2019, Magic Mark wrote: I don't recall PM ever referencing Anverdi. I think dice of this nature is kind of a "well duh" type idea with the only question being how to implement the idea (as in creating the method for the idea). It's an odd thing in magic where people fight over crediting on very very very basic ideas such as "what if I can know what you rolled on a die without me seeing it." It more or less comes down to the implementation of the method to achieve the idea that really has any merit for crediting, etc. |
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DavidKenney Inner circle 2178 Posts
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Ok, I got my review finished - wow 18 minutes apparently I had a lot to say, HEY - don't be alarmed by the reader "flashing" in my video - that is how my phone processes the screen - the actual receiver does not do that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo3RvpGg300 |
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Steven Conner Inner circle 2731 Posts
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Will a facebook group be started.
Best Steve
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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I hope not, most are dreadful...
I've asked to be banned
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Magic Mark Inner circle After this post I will have 1556 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 11, 2019, DavidKenney wrote: Great job (again), David! Thank you for what you do!! Hocus-Pocus shipped my set this afternoon. It should be here by Friday. Mark
Doing tricks can be easy, being an entertainer is much harder.
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Chollet Regular user Don't be fooled by the fact I only have 191 Posts
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There have been a lot of "Mental Die" type products...
Mental Die - Anverdi 1977 Radio Wave - Dice Yn-Ching Peng 1999 Mental Dice - Labco Magic 2003 Cube Rotation - Uncredited Aug 2006 Remote Vision Color Cube - Tim Wiseman Jul 2007 Remote Vision Die - Tim Wiseman Jul 2007 Remote Cubed 3000 - Tim Wiseman Jul 2007 Impossible Die Prediction - Jam Magic 2007 Electronic die 2 - Chuck Caputo 2007 Electric Psychic Die - Indomagic 2008 Multi-Dimensional - ProMystic 2008 Die Lema - JB Magic 2009 Duel1 - Tim Wisseman 2009 Mini Cube - JB Magic 2010 Magic Dice Prediction - King Magic Oct 2011 rvPhotocube - Steve Skindell Feb 2013 Dice Prediction - Hatiro Nishiguchi Aug 2014 Master Die - Master-Miracles 2014 Real Die - ProMystic 2014 Real Die Rechargeable - ProMystic 2014 Mysticube - eStooge Oct 2014 Cube - Hugo Shelley March 2015 MentalDice - Marc Antoine 2017 Unifi Dice - Illuminati Magic 2017 Mental Dice - Murphy’s Magic 2019 Nathan at Illuminati put this list together, and I have updated it with things I know were missing. Not meant to be comprehensive, although it is probably pretty close. |
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Magic Mark Inner circle After this post I will have 1556 Posts
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One other thing that bears mentioning/emphasis... I mentioned above that I purchased my Antoine Mental Dice secondhand. One of the dice arrived with a chip in the finish. Marc Antoine demonstrated superlative customer service and replaced that die for no charge. I didn't have to pay for shipping nor did Marc require me to ship the damaged die back to him. I remain extremely grateful for that courtesy. Particularly because, even though I purchased them secondhand, I still paid fairly close to retail price for my Antoine Mental Dice at the beginning of this year.
For Antoine's never version of Mental Dice, he told me that he had to change manufacturers of the dice and said that's why the Antoine dice are now 1mm smaller. Presumably, the problem with chipping is one of the primary reasons Marc changed manufacturers. And chipping *is* a real concern with the original Antoine Mental Dice. One of my magician buddies also has an original Antoine set and he told me that all 3 of them have tiny chips in the finish at the corners. I remember Marc cautions against rolling the dice inside a hard cup or with each other (hopefully, not an issue with his latest version). So, it's probably not a coincidence that Murphy's blurb for the Anverdi Mental Dice specifically states: "Like regular dice, they can be rolled together or in a cup without worries of chipping them." Mark
Doing tricks can be easy, being an entertainer is much harder.
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bowers Inner circle Oakboro N.C. 7024 Posts
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Great review as always David.
Can"t wait to get my set. Todd |
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Ustaad Inner circle Iindia - States 6157 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 11, 2019, Chollet wrote: Thanks for the updated list. Hey, you forgot THIS man's dice. 
OKay, never mind, forget it   
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke. |
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10800 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 11, 2019, DavidKenney wrote: Great work as always David. Thank you
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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Phatmeat Special user Silver Spring, Maryland 768 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 11, 2019, DavidKenney wrote: I’m skeptical the Mental Dice will last “forever,” especially if they use batteries. The PM RD Standard, which has a battery, is advertised as having a 10 year lifespan. The RDR on the other hand is advertised as having a 40 year lifespan, although I’ve been told it should technically last forever because it uses a capacitor and not a battery. |
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Ustaad Inner circle Iindia - States 6157 Posts
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Don't think or bother about the immortal life of the batteries. Before the batteries dies, the electronics (one of the electronic component) will fail before that - sooner or later. Nothing is immortal including we the 'Great Magicians'.
So enjoy and make good use of such electronic props till they work good.
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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Mines arrived just now. Very impressed. Will have a play tonight. What I will say though, is that the dice look great and importantly have the same click-clack sound when shook. My concern was they'd sound hollow or odd.
I've asked to be banned
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hcs Special user Germany, Magdeburg 510 Posts
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I politely doubt that Tony Anverdi was in 1979 the first with such a kind of "mental dice"! I'm sure he knew about other creations. We are speaking about the 1970s. Such tricks were on vogue.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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Then find evidence and share it...
I've asked to be banned
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Rainer - ParaLabs Loyal user 264 Posts
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Herbert Paufler in the East of Germany in 1972.
I will write more infos ASAP.  |
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Posted: Dec 11, 2019 06:36 pm 