You know or believe more than me... if "a lot are forced" (which means not all), then these are the first which could easily disappear without leaving any gap. These dealers are useless. Jan

Watched the Vimeo vid...got some thoughts...

as an outsider when it comes to most of these products, I'm a little aware of them, and I bought the anvendi latest release...but none of the others...

how close am I?
there was the anvendi, the german fella (can't recall the name, sorry - the one Rainer mentioned) before him...
there's been lots of cube style effects, but promystic did the bigger plastic cubes a few years back (the black and kinda bronze coloured dots - I had that one too) and PM brought out the first rechargeable regular looking dice? is that correct so far?

i'm assuming that the technology between all of them is different?

what antoine did was put all 3 die in a wooden box and his tech is his? same as PM who write/build/create everything inhouse?

and antoine did the c*l*ur re*d-*ut idea too? PM's is a th*mper…

so no one is re-using other people's tech? or has tech moved on so far that its all "out there"? and would I be right in thinking that the basis of the modern tech is the gyro stuff that was first used for smartphones? or is that different?

so the new anvendi one:
doesn't th*mp and
doesn't use a wooden box (which I believe is intrinsic to antoine's version)

so the commonalities are
regular sized and coloured die
receiver/display

the differences are
anvendi's can be placed anywhere?
doesn't have to use a box
different technology?

please note ? denotes a question!

antoine has now released a th*mper, and PM uses one too...visually/technically are they the same or overlapping?
i'm not at home so I can't check, but can you put the new anvendi die in a box and know still or is it blocked?

there's a mild difference in actions too, the originals needed the box for it to work, right? you HAD to place it back in the box...
are there differences in the d*splays?

i'm still not entirely sure whether there are any rip offs, or enough minor differences to be ok? I say that, because the base idea is "roll a die and I can tell you what the number is..." or "pick a number and put it in the box and I can tell you what it is..."

but the most important part of any rip-off from my view is, is the technology being used the same? or is it proprietary? I have a cheap Epiphone SG guitar, it was around 90 quid...a les paul sunburst body. I can buy a pretty much identical looking guitar for £1000, or £69. made by different people with different quality controls, parts and differences in wood and pick-ups, but they are all guitars. And no one is ripping off anyone. Unless they are and its an accepted trade practice?

so I'm still more full of questions than a definite feel...

if I had an open cheque to buy one of the three dice products, and all of the above had been settled amicably, I'd still want the anvendi…

don't want to be counting furiously with a th*mper, don't want a little wooden box in my pocket, I want to be able to house what I need wherever I want to suit the environment... if the new anvendi last 2 years maximum, and I gigged with it, I'd be happy because the first gig would have paid for them blah blah blah

if anyone who is in the know (and has at least one of them, legal copies etc) - and can shed some light, then great and thanks...

I prefer the size of Marc Antoine's dice because they are more visible. But the larger size also tends to suggest "trick dice". Unfortunately, Marc's larger dice are far too easy to chip. Marc has already replaced one of mine because of chipping. Marc's video instructions specifically warn against shaking his dice together or shaking a single die in a hard-sided container. Clearly, Marc is aware of the chipping issue. A friend that has owned Marc's dice since they were first introduced recently checked his dice and found that most of the corners on all three dice have little chips in them. Perhaps the "new and improved" Antoine Mental Dice are more robust? Marc did change manufacturers (told me so himself) and the new dice are about 1mm smaller.

I own both products. Not sure how many in this topic can say that. It is a joy that I can carry the Anverdi Mental Dice around in my pocket with zero concern that they might get chipped. I can roll the Anverdi dice in a hard-sided cup. If a spectator drops one over the side of the table I do not have to cringe on the inside as it hits the hard floor.

BTW, it's a bit comical that Marc is unhappy with Murphy's for "stealing" his idea while, at the same time, Marc is developing a thumper ala ProMystic's idea.

Appears to me that some of the unhappy people in this thread don't own EITHER of the products. The best way those people can show support for Marc is to BUY his product.

Mark

Well, after they read the first part of your post they are probably not going to do that anymore...

Here's a photo of the chipping that occurred on the red die in my Marc Antoine Mental Dice set.




To his credit, Marc replaced the die for me and didn't charge me anything. He even told me to not bother sending the damaged red die back to him so I wouldn't incur the shipping cost. I've already praised Marc for his excellent customer service in the Antoine Mental Dice topic.

Mark

For me, the most significant advantage of the Anverdi Mental Dice is the range. With Marc Antoine's Mental Dice I need to be within the same room and not more than around 8-10 feet from dice or the receiver can lose the signal. A couple of times while using Marc Antoine's dice I have turned my back and moved a little bit too far from the spectators. The receiver will be registering 1 or 2 of the dice but not the other(s). I had to take a step or two back toward the spectators. But, once I got a feel for the distance I was fine.

Murphy's Anverdi dice work fine with the receiver 25 - 30 feet away and through 2 walls.

Mark

Surely advantages and improvements etc aside. The design and effect is Marc Antoine's

Ian, Marc's dice have not be in a box... you can handle them freely... he just mentions the wooden box as this was his point to get the idea using three dice... leading also to a receiver with display... Jan

Ah ok, so when going to perform, you don't need to take the wooden box with you?

No

In Marc’s first release (I was an early purchaser) the box is used to put the dice in sleep mode. I don’t think that applies to his later release.

Mike

Magic Mark , a Red sharpie would have sorted that out 😂 .
The first Promystic Real Die has a range far far greater than them all added together .
It sounds Murphys couldn’t sell enough at Marcs price so they screwed him over .
It’s electronic foul play and it’s not rocket science to see that imho Gaz 🙂

Well I’ve always ‘boycotted’ Murphy’s just because of their annoying/silly advert on TMC. As no matter what I do, every so often my fat finger will accidentally send me to Murphys when I’m just (always) trying to close the silly box.

It must cost them some money all those non-clicks


But it’s annoying and a waste of time having to bounce back to TMC and still then need to close the advert before I can continue

I mean that advert on its own should prove they are from the ‘dark side’ ... it’s rare a big company gets caught out and called out on behaviour like this... so in someways they’ve been ‘unlucky’ to have been so publicly caught on this one

I think with all the estodge indiegoogoo dice this effect isn’t for me... it might have been if it was all still at Craig’s prices.... but depending on the developments- maybe I will get Marc’s version in 2020 to support him... and help bring down the Death Star

I'm sorry, Mike, but that simply is not correct. The attractive wooden box was simply a way to store the dice. The original Antoine Mental Dice were turned on or off by placing them on a little magnetic pad that was supplied with the effect. This had to be done individually and is a bit tedious.

The "new and improved" Antoine Mental Dice now come with what Marc calls an "Easy Box". This is a storage box that has the necessary magnets in it. When the dice are in the Easy Box the dice are turned off. When the dice are removed from the Easy Box the dice are turned on. But I believe this still has to be done in conjunction with turning the Antoine receiver on or off. If you leave the receiver on the dice will not shut off (even in the Easy Box). If you turn the receiver off and do NOT put the dice in the Easy Box, the batteries in the Antoine dice can be depleted very quickly.

Basically, there's a "procedure" you have to follow to turn on/off the Antoine Mental Dice. The Murphy's Anverdi Mental Dice is MUCH better in that regard. Simply turn the receiver on and the dice are turned on once you start moving them. Turn the receiver off and the dice are automatically shut off too.

For the "new and improved" Antoine Mental Dice, Marc has replaced the attractive wooden box with the Easy Box. I believe Marc still has some wooden boxes left and is supplying those as a bonus until his supply of wooden boxes is exhausted. However, the new and improved Antoine dice are 1mm smaller so they are a somewhat loose fit in the wooden box (which is sized for the original dice).

Mark

But who is more to blame, Murphy’s or TMC for offering it to them and allowing it to remain (they could at least make it easier to close) in order to receive the monthly income from Murphy’s?

I would much prefer to see TMC be a closed, member only group that is user funded rather than advertiser funded but those in charge feel they would make far less money that way. Unfortunately, they are probably right.
But when they then claim that they are keeping it free out of the goodness of their heart because they care so deeply for magic and magicians I feel they are being a little disingenuous. Although I do believe it is likely true that it could not exist without advertising.

At the very least they could have it password protected to create a small hurdle the general public would have to get over in order to gain access.

But that is a whole other topic for another time so back to the dice discussion.

Here's how it really went down, I got this information DIRECTLY from Marc Antoine via email:

At some point Marc decided to stop selling his product to Murphy's. Marc said Murphy's was requiring a wholesale price that was too much of a discount off of retail so there would be profit overhead for both Murphy's and subsequent retailers. Marc didn't want to raise the price of an already expensive product so he made the decision to sell directly to various retailers himself (and continue to sell on his website). In a nutshell, it was Marc that decided to cut Murphy's out of the loop. Unable to get Marc's product, Murphy's apparently decided to develop their own.

Marc had EVERY right to withdraw his product from Murphy's. But it also strikes me as the proverbial cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Marc seems to be a very nice person and I remain grateful that he replaced my damaged red die for no charge. Right before the Anverdi Mental Dice was released I was exchanging emails with Marc about swapping my original Antoine Mental Dice for the new & improved Antoine dice with Easy Box. Marc quoted me $195. Yet, I see in his recent video that he is only asking $90 to swap the 3 dice (why $195 a couple of weeks ago???). That is down from the $120 ($40 per die) that he quoted to me (to swap dice when the batteries eventually die) in early 2019.

Marc's new thumper looks exciting and reasonably priced. Seems pretty clever to add the long thump feature for the number 4 or greater. No sure if that is how the ProMystic product works or not.

But, with Murphy's Anverdi thumper on the horizon, perhaps Marc should have kept those details to himself?

Mark

I think that highlights the power of Murphy's for you.

Of course he had the right not to supply them, as does every creator.

Why was he cutting his nose off - the presence of Murphy's adds cost to consumer and cuts dealers profits.

Your argument would be more convincing *if* Marc Antoine had lowered the retail price of his Mental Dice once he cut Murphy's out of the loop. The original retail price Marc's Mental Dice was set when Murphy's *was* in the loop. So, why didn't the retail price go down with Murphy's out of the loop?

If Murphy's can retail its Mental Dice product for $300 why is Marc Antoine's product still $425?

And why did Marc quote me $195 to swap my original dice for the new & improved dice when the previous swap price was $120 and now the swap price is apparently $90?

Instead of making "truth" videos, Marc should be spending his time making a BETTER mousetrap. He should use his proven talent and cleverness to make a BETTER version of Mental Dice and sell it for a more competitive price.

Mark

“ Marc didn't want to raise the price of an already expensive product “

Exactly so because of his kind consciousness and consideration they screwed him over like I said imho Gaz 🙂

Ps you can already donate to the Café without it being a subscription service and many members do 👍

The ORIGINAL attractive wooden box has the magnetic pad built into its base (I bought this at Blackpool three years ago directly from Marc when he first released the effect). By placing the dice in the box and orientating them the correct way, they are turned off.

I still have the set and it works exactly like this.

Mike