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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts 
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I usualy get whatever he puts out, but I'm standing on the curb on this until reviews come in. Why? The demo clip was so annoying. He really needs a good friend to tell him to use a script of funny, tested material or stop trying to ad- lib.
Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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Trestkon New user Canada 94 Posts
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Agreed. He has some great stuff, but if he walked up to my table and acted like he does in half his videos I'd probably run screaming the other way
-Larry
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WolfgangStiller Loyal user Colorado Springs, Colorado 218 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-11-05 00:53, MagicChris wrote: That's part of what has put me off on ordering this. I don't understand why there couldn't have been a better demo clip. The material itself sounds different than some of his past stuff. -Wolfgang |
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Gilgamesh_The_Librarian Elite user 408 Posts
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It would be a shame if the presentation put people off investigating the effects. As somebody has already mentioned perhaps Jay needs a friend to point him in the right direction on these demos.
I'm not sure the performers zany presentration style has anything to do with a teaching video, its up to us to put our own style on these tricks . So perhaps Jay needs to look at his teaching style to win over more advocates. |
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Paul Wingham Veteran user Rustington, South Coast, UK 365 Posts
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On 2006-11-05 00:53, MagicChris wrote: I couldn't agree more, You should do what I do with jay sankey tricks/demos,watch them without the sound on. That way you just get the magic without the god awful ad lib comedy.....I use the word comedy in a very loose sense. |
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-11-05 03:11, Trestkon wrote: He had a DVD ( FRONT ROW SANKEY filmed at Toronto's Mr. Greenjean's Restaurant and Bar ) with him doing table hopping and he was very pleasant at the tables. I think he just likes to cut up and ad lib on his teaching videos and it can be annoying when it's not funny.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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clamon86 Special user 508 Posts
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Although Front Row Sankey was decent, I think its among the better dvds he's put out. The material is completely bad, but the presentations aren't great.
I think he was trying to prove that he actually does use a few of the effects he has on his 30 dvds. |
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Darkfrog Regular user 137 Posts
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No matter what you say or think about Sankey's material, at least his videos have more than one effect on them. I am getting very tired of these one shot DVD's that has an effect that should be part of a collection for the amount of money they charge. I'm sorry if I offend, but there is nothing special about Hundy 500, Silver Dream, Box Monster, Greed, Sh4de, etc. etc. etc. or just about 90% of these single effect videos being released lately. It's about as bad as releasing a trilogy of DVDs that could have fit onto two. The only reason to release a 3-fer is to charge more. The other advantage to releasing more tricks on one video is that fewer people will actually know about the one YOU decide is a killer and put in your show. These other effects suffer from overexposure.
</rant> |
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Paul Wingham Veteran user Rustington, South Coast, UK 365 Posts
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I'm not the biggest fan of one trick dvds, but Silver dream and box monster are two that I have recently purchased and they show every detail of tricks that have been workhorses to the creators for years. The big difference in my opinion is that I always get the impression Jay sankey invents magic tricks for the sake of releasing dvds.
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WolfgangStiller Loyal user Colorado Springs, Colorado 218 Posts
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On 2006-11-06 04:27, Paul Wingham wrote: I agree. Some single effects require a lot of time to explain all the nuances, possible variations and details in the handling so in these cases an entire DVD dedicated to a single effect is worthwhile. There are others that IMHO, don't justify an entire DVD for the effect. -Wolfgang |
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Justin N. Miller Inner circle 2457 Posts
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Even though I am not performing anymore I will periodicly come here to see what is up. Glad I did!
I can tell you for a certainty that Silver Dream and Greed are not JUST one trick dvds. These routines have been the BREAD AND BUTTER of our lives for over 15 years. Sankey ( and I love jay as a person and a magician) does put out a lot of UNFINISHED routines..he just does...but he also puts out some GREAT material, real working material..That being said..I would rather put out 5 one trick dvds each yr. that are the workhorse of my rep. (homer) than put out a 12 dvds that have 14 effects on each and maybe you will be able to pick out 1 or 2 on each one you will actually, might, maybe, if your fortunate, be able to use. Justin Miller |
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Chicagomagi New user Riverside, IL 93 Posts
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Ok. Look I'm not a professional and maybe that's where my perspective differs from most. As an amateur/hobbiest I eat up anything Jay puts out because it's usually clever and it makes me think.
The bonus for me is that he often DOES use the same techniques repetitively. Guess what? As an amateur/hobbiest I don't have the time or the fortitude to learn every new technique or all the major old techniques that are out there. My brain is too full of other $#%*. But hey! If I can recycle a technique and turn it into another miracle then great. It's economical and gives me flexibility. Also, I don't buy this argument that he puts out weak/undeveloped stuff. Again, I think you're buying his thoughts as much as new effects. For instance, I have 3 Ring Circus. As you probably know it contains some additional/filler effects. One of which is a Triumph effect. Well even I know that there are vastly superior Triumphs out there. However, I learned the primary move from this effect, The Paul LePaul Center Reverse. So I don't do that version of a Triumph but I get a ton of mileage out of that one move because I use it for other things - things that I came up with because I spent time with Jay's effect and using my own creativity adapted the move for something else. To me that's what makes Jay's work so cool. My 2 cents. I'll probably pick this DVD up soon. |
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clamon86 Special user 508 Posts
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Chicagomagi- I do like and respect that you are providing a different about Sankeys work. I do have to say that if you want to think, get a good book and just read a few effects and you'll be thinking.
Slightly off-topic about the 3 ring circus dvd. First of all there's a reason its a stage trick. Its a visually stunning trick to watch many huge rings link together. The fact that the rings are smaller doesn't make it any more of a worker routine. There's a reason that certain magic is only suitable for close-up and stage. Also what I don't get is the purpose of the bonus material. What's the point of putting a few card tricks after you show the ring routine. It doesn't fit the dvd at all. If you want to focus on the ring routine, why distract people with filler card or whatever else material. Put material where it belongs, not just to fill mroe space. Lastly if you like the LePaul move, don't watch someone else do it, get one of the best books ever printed, The Magic of Paul LePaul for $15 or so. just my two centavos |
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Magicsquared Inner circle 1262 Posts
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Man, I hate Jay Sankey. Who does he think he is releasing two whole DVDs in one year? The nerve of that guy. And he uses the same moves over and over! Yeah, maybe they're different effects, but they're the same moves.
Know who else I hate? Dai Vernon. What a jerk! I got one of his books and it was like, "double-lift this" and "top-change that." Hey buddy, get some new moves will ya?! But the bane of my existance is Theodore Annemann. This guy produced a weekly magic magazine. Hey ya bum, who are you to decide what you release and what you don't release? Don't you know I make that choice for everybody? Geez louise! [I'm shaking my fist at the sky.] |
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Chicagomagi New user Riverside, IL 93 Posts
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Clamon, I also respect your opinion and thank you for your addition to this thread, although I do agree we're taking this a little off track. Also, please don't take this the wrong way but I take a little offense at being told to "get a good book...and you'll really be thinking" and "don't watch someone else do it..."
First off, in my original post, I was defending Jay by saying that I'm tired of hearing people complain, "Sankey is too prolific. His DVDs are full of undeveloped/filler material." Yada Yada Yada. My point in all this is - I DON'T CARE BECAUSE I LIKE HIS STUFF! Now to your suggestions. I agree books are a great inspirational medium. (I actually recommend Sankey's books with many of the other classics.) But does that mean you can't be inspired from watching a video? Personally, I get more inspired when I can see the performance, hear the patter, study the misdirection and audience reaction. As for 3 Ring Circus, we can debate the preference of the Rings all day. I personally find the stage rings uninspiring unless you're going to do a routine like Whit Hayden's. However, the rings closeup, inches from the face (after being inspected) and in the hands, to me, is masterful. Now the filler material... I viewed it as getting a bonus with my purchase of the ring routine. You thought it odd or a waste. To each his own. If it'd just been the rings and instructional DVD by itself, I'd have been okay with that. But I think it's to Jay's credit that he gave the customer a little more. I don't think he ever thought, "Gee, nobody's gonna buy this piece of crap DVD if I don't give them another trick using the Vernon Substitute Transfer." Finally I appreciate your advice on the LePaul book, but in truth, I already have it. Until I saw the move on 3 Ring Circus though I never saw the power of the move or the way to really use it properly. |
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Kevvy Special user 702 Posts
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I can understand Clamon's point regarding the bonus material on 3 Ring Circus seeming a bit out of place. But I agree with Chicagomagi that it would have been a good dvd without the bonus effects. (For those that like linking ring routines)
I don't view the bonus effects as filler. In fact, Dowsing is one of my favorite Sankey effects. I bought 3 Ring Circus because several people mentioned that Dowsing was a good impromptu OOTW. I wasn't really interested in the Ring effects. I figured that I might possibly like some of the other bonus effects too. As it turned out, a couple of the bonus routines were my favorites. (Dowsing and Economic Risks) The handling for Dowsing is similar to some of his other effects. This wasn't a drawback to me because I had never considered using it for OOTW. Some of his effects are alternate or improved handlings of previous effects. I have most of his dvds. The only one I absolutely didn't like was NO CARD TRICKS. Not because there weren't any card tricks. I just didn't like any of the material. The demo for Supernatural is quite vague, but the description of some of the effects sound good. Another thing I like about Sankey is that I don't find his descriptions to be misleading. |
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Darkfrog Regular user 137 Posts
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On 2006-11-06 11:04, WolfgangStiller wrote: I think that sometimes the 'nuances' are a bit repetitive, and are there sometimes more of as a time filler than as really necessary information. Now I'm not saying that about all of them, but take for example Silver Dream. I would have preferred a Cloutier style teach-in on Sl*****g and use Silver Dream routine as just one thing you can do with that, maybe the finale of the DVD. I don't want to see hundreds of Justin Millers performing the same routine. I might like one segment of the routine and combine it with something else already in my arsenal, or maybe the teaching of some of the basics would inspire some of these younger magicians to innovate and combine the material in a way that suits them. I think Fraud and Greed were both great tricks. However, in the past, I used to see tricks like this on the Steven's or the Stars of Magic series tapes along with other effects (just look at the Paul Harris videos). Fraud took more time explaining how to make the trick, than it did showing how to perform it. Many of these explanations seem to drag on, I think because they are trying to fill up time, showing all of these 'nuances' when often the moves are just being repeated. We don't need to keep seeing the same thing, these are DVD videos with reverse and slo-mo capabilities. The video medium can be utilized in a much more efficient manner, utilizing graphics and better editing. For about the same price, I could get a David Roth or Michael Rubinstein 2-DVD set and learn a hell of a lot more, including some effects that, as you say, have been workhorses for their creators. In the Fraud video, we watched Daniel puttering around the office while making the gimmick, that was just a waste of time and so much of it was obvious, and could have been better reinforced by including written instructions for most of that part. Remember, DVDs are multimedia and can hold files, that includes text files with drawings (now I know Fraud did come with something extra necessary for the trick) As I said, I like a lot of these tricks. I just think it wouild be nice if we could see more multiple effect releases, like maybe Fraud and Greed as a single release. They could charge a bit more and maybe find that they even sell more than if released individually. |
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Cameron Francis V.I.P. 7028 Posts
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I picked up this dvd because I am an unabashed Sankey fan. I won't do a long review but I will say that there are more than one or two good effects on here.
A few of my favorites are: Burden of Proof Circumference A Delicate Balance Forced Entry Paper Trade Trinity But I hated "Around the Bend" (just put it under the rubber band!) and "X Ray Vision" (why, oh why would you do a business card effect where you can't hand out the business card at the end?). There are much better ways to do both effects. This dvd is only for the Sankey fan, though. And it is really nice to have a dvd with no coin or card material.
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
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dg magic Veteran user Houston , TX. 350 Posts
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On 2006-11-07 16:08, Darkfrog wrote: to you it may seem that the explanations dragged on in my DVD's ... but you have to think that there are some people that just don't pick up things as quick as others. I make it MY PERSONAL GOAL to explain EVERYTHING to the FULLEST. I believe that is what teaching is, making sure that EVERYONE understands EVERYTHING to the fullest. To you maybe it lagged on, but to some maybe it was EXACTLY what they needed. Daniel Garcia
-Truth is made up of two things... FACT... and the ability to believe it-
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clamon86 Special user 508 Posts
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Chicagomagi- In a sense this debate is not completely off-track because we are talking about the attitude that Jay Sankey has toward the magic community and what he has to offer. I want to mention that I'm sorry if you take offense to any of my possibly harsh words, but if we are having a debate, sorry for any bad attitude. I think its important to learn from both books and dvds, but when you learn from a dvd the tendency is to copy the presentation depending on what you are looking for in the dvd.
I do understand that you may not care what other people think, are stick to your opinion about liking Sankey's material. My response to that is simple. I am a performer and try to look for the best material to fix up and put to my personal style. I enjoy watching a good dvd with good material and possibly add an effect or two to my working repetiore. Jay seems to be making this so difficult for people like me who want to do this by putting out so much material at one time, with such poor quality. From poor filming quality, recycling magic, putting out overlapping material, and just way to much unfinished material and filler. Its so hard when watching dvds like Anytime Anywhere, 45, Supernatural and so many others not to get seriously dizzy from the camera work. If you don't understand that, which is definetely possible, then try taking 10-20 of his routines putting in just alittle practice and then go perform them for REAL people and even some magicians who can help you with a routine. You will see what I mean. "As for 3 Ring Circus, we can debate the preference of the Rings all day. I personally find the stage rings uninspiring unless you're going to do a routine like Whit Hayden's. However, the rings closeup, inches from the face (after being inspected) and in the hands, to me, is masterful. " I completely disagree. Watch any of the linking ring routines by Jeff McBride and Chris Capehart and you will see the difference. Try to see them live. Also not to spill a method or anything, but Sankey's statement of "all the ring are examinable" is misleading. For someone who isn't knowledgeable about the basic linking rings concept they will be dissappointed. It only takes a few seconds after performing to say "hey lemme see those rings," "hey lemme try those" that's what the real REAL PEOPLE are like. In regard to the bonus effects. Why distract the viewer. He didn't perform card magic at the end of the Rev. Coin dvd so why do it now. What's the point of bonus material. If its to add more value to the dvd, or perhaps provide more insight for the viewer, I think he has done that in a very negative way, but good for marketing. Speaking of the Vernon Substitue Transer, I personally feel he has "butchered" that move and does it WAY TO MUCH, and making it into an unnatural, suspicious move. No laymen I know has ever seen cards handled that way. Going back to Supernatural. The demo just turned me off so much. Also, several of the effects on the dvd he explained and talked about in the newsletter. One such trick is the bubble wrap trick, and the method was very basic. Its like he comes up with 1000s of effects and uses the same 10 moves to make them all possible with little variety, I dunno about that. just my two centavos |
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Posted: Nov 5, 2006 05:53 am 