Figures yuu and I would do that!

Ha!

I have thought this same thing (damn repeat audience) for years but I had not seen this thread before.
I for one am a little sick of Frank. Now don't get me wrong, I am sure Frank is a fine guy, he seems very nice, but he is always front and center and often part of a little in joke... it is just too much focus on the audience and the same members for my taste. It makes the productions seem very small time and cheap.

Here is an idea for L&L... isn't there some small theater you can rent in town? Move the production OUT of your tiny little studio with 20 people sitting on folding chairs. When you are charging $100 for a couple of DVDs (Nothing) it would be nice to up the production values.

the idea of a real live audience is PERFECT but the same 20 people on folding chairs every time is dull and for me at least distracting. Rent a small theater, fill it up with people all given free tickets and allow the performers to really put on a real show... something more akin to a true real world performance. Frank and the rest could still attend, but there would be MANY others to equal things out.

We now need to mention Scotty and Margaret so they don't feel left out.

Are you willing to pay an extra $10 per disc to cover that additional production cost?

Tom:

Yes, I would pay more for better production values and more realistic / diverse locations. I place a high value (perhaps higher than most) on those. Magic DVDs already sell for much higher prices than mass released DVDs (Nothing by Max Maven sells for $100 for example) so one may argue that there should be enough profit to up the production a bit. But with that said yes, I absolutely would pay $10 more.

Steve:

I have a lot of experience in video production having either produced, edited or directed many commercially released DVDs (none magic related). Because of this I admit that I am probably much more sensitive to production issues than most. However I also know that what I am suggesting is not only very feasible (and not really for that much additional cost) but would produce a much greater product.

Your examples (for the most part) do not ring true for me. No Camera Tricks is shot 90% in studio and even those you mention which are not are generally shot on location in a bar or what have you. I am suggesting a more formal stage situation at an actual live theater. In essence I am saying they should put on a live show and document it, much as someone may document a concert. This does not have to be a huge production, trust me. Two to three hand-helds and a master shot are all you REALLy need. This is comparable to what L&L is using now. I'm just saying pull it out of the studio and into a real world stage situation.

My intentions are not to bash L&L's work (and really don't think I have) or to create arguments, I mean to be totally constructive in my criticism. By shooting a true live show in a real theater with a larger and more diverse audience we would really get to see REAL reactions, see these performers in action is a more natural setting and also add some diversity to the crowd.

I admire L&L's work and own MANY DVDs from them (probably the great majority of their catalog) but I also know that with a small effort they can make some of the product even better.

You mentioned it earlier but Osterlind's No Camera Tricks would have been the PERFECT project to move out of the standard studio. The idea was to make TV quality performance videos, almost to the point in which commercials could be dropped in and then have it actually air. Now be honest, have you ever seen a TV show on air in a setting like L&L's studio? Even if the answer is yes you must admit that most performances you see on TV, be it magic or music or comedy or what have you, are filmed in theaters with real audiences. Even is you disagree with all of the No Camera Tricks ended up looking exactly like Osterland's other L&L DVDs instead of the unique product it was intended to be.

At the end of the day I enjoy L&L's products and I only am offering suggestions to improve them based on personal knowledge and experience.

Oh sorry, one last point.

Obviously I am only suggesting this type of venue (live theater) for an appropriate act. A straight close up magician would surely not be served by this, nor would a street performer. But many of the performers L&L deals with also work larger venues. Osterlind mentions how well many of his effects would work in a really big room (talking 300-500 maybe, nothing HUGE) so why not let us see it!

Imagine how cool it would be to see Richard running of stage into the audience and doing some little miracle in the back row... it just would have a lot more impact.

Everyone should voice their opinions. If no one says anything, then improvements don't happen. I would have loved to see Malone in a bar/resturant setting with real patrons. Woudl I have paid more for the DVD set to have it happen? If it was a real establishment, with real people and I got to see how he really used to do it, yes I would.

The Party Animal DVD set ( non L&L ) was done in a real bar for real people and it was the best set of 2007 in my opinion ). The set wasn't anymore in price than L&L's. So, it can be done.

So I'd would also like to see real world conditions. It does make a diffence soemtimes. The Eddie Tullock "Tradeshow" tapes were in front of a non tradeshow L&L crowd and it showed. And don't get me started on the Fernando Keops set.


We ourselves can't always pick the audiences we get when we perform. But, if I was doing a shoot, I'd want:

John: He's having fun and reacting in a big way. As Malone said in his first shoot " Sir, would you mind moving around the room and making it seem like a crowd" ). One person can change the energy of a room.

In Tommy Wonders brilliant Ambitious Card routine he removes the little box and tells them this is a surprise for later. John says " it's not my watch is it?". FUNNY line and the crowd reacts with laughter ( Tania slaps John in a playful way beacuse it's so funny).

John is allot funnier and smarter than many have given him credit for. And anyone that works, you'd kill for a spectator like him.

David: He'd funny, reacts, but WATCHES very carefully. He's quite suspicious and wants to catch the Magician if he can. When he's fooled, he lts you know.

Frank: Charismatic and smart. He also watches carefully. He claps politely if it's "ok". When he's fooled, he grins like baby and applauds accordingly.

I realize we're consumers and watch these DVD's dozens and dozens of times over. We want to not only learn great magic but want to be entertained as well. There have been quite a few sets I didn't like, but it had to do with the performer not the crowd.

Jerry Seinfeld says "it's a poor performer that blames the crowd" ( sort of a variation on Vernon's "it's a poor artist that blames the brushes" line. Seinfeld puts the ownus on the perfomer.

I learn allot watching a GREAT performer struggle to get reactions form a luke warm room. I learn allot watching them with a friendly, we're here to have fun crowd as well.

Bill Malone didn't have the standard L&L crowd on his new Here I Go Again DVD's and he had to work to get recations as he didn't have John and David to play off of. There was a different vibe and it's made some folks not care for the set as much as his On The Loose series, yet I beleive it contains material that is just as strong.

One of the BEST DVD sets ever is The Richard Sanders Show and there is no crowd. The viewer is the audience. Go figure.

TeeVee...remember they are in a very small town in a rustic area. Considering where they are they have a very impressive set up.

A bit off-topic....

In "On the Loose....", Bill Malone performs "Sam the Bellhop". Early on he asks a male spectator what he does for a living. After a reply, Bill says, "Oh, that's ok, I'll go slower."

I can't make out what the spec said he does for a living, and for some STUPID reason, I want to know what that guy said that he does for a living. Just one of those quirks, I guess.

Anyone recall?

Magic Santa...

Right, I know they are not in LA or Chicago or New York. I think they are near Reno, right?

Anyway, who says they need to film it in their home town? Today's video cameras, even high end consumer models, are VERY capable of shooting in live theater environments and I don't think we are expecting full on broadcast quality. So they could go on location as it were. Put on a show in whatever town they choose and film it there. The possibilities are endless.

Again though, please do not take this as a put down of what L&L has done, I enjoy most of the DVDs very much. Rather think of it as ideas of how they can continue to grow and make even better product.

About an hour from Reno.

I love to see specs on the take, as I like to continue to learn also how to handle them. Doing a trick is one thing, but selling it is another.

My problem with some LL crowds are some of them do act. If you have seen a couple of sponge ball acts, would you still be amazed if the balls multiply in your hands?

I agree that they seem like infomercial people and do act, and I think this distracts from the magic. It would be better to see a more representative group of spectators.

But then again, a crowd that sucks will pull down the best presentation. Do you want this on tape?

Maybe? Have you seen "Nothing" by Max Maven? You can't get an audience that sucks much worse than that!

Put a real performer in a real theater with a real audience and lets see what happens. Then go back to the living room, er, I mean "Studio" at L&L for the explanations.

Sorry, there is something wrong with John, and the reactions from most of the audience seem contrived. That about sums it up.
fib

Oh yes, L&L should spend the money to hire a new audience for each and every shoot. We all would be more than happy to have that cost passed on to us.

Bob Phillips

I'm pickin' up your sarcasm.

Someone asked me if john has a developmental disability.

http://www.papercraneproductions.net
"Wrinkled" The ultimate ungimmicked raisin through sealed bottle coming in 2008.

Why would anyone have to PAY any audience? What the heck, the audience generally pays to attend a show... I would think a good performer offering FREE tickets could fill a small theater for God's sake.

But heck, maybe I am an idiot, I have been CHARGING for performances all this time, I guess I should have been paying people to attend. Silly me.