I have been looking at my return on my advertising. I currently only do facebook ads. I wanted to do a trial run and see what I can get with a modest amount put in. I have noticed that I have been able to get a return of 2.3x the amount I put in (i.e. $100 in advertising would make $230 in profit [$330 total]). I am not sure what is considered good for this kind of advertising.

I mostly do kid shows and my target demographic for the ads are Women aged 25 to 45 years old.


The questions I have are:

Is that a good return?
What do you guys/gals tend to get?
What other advertising do you do as well?

Thanks, Andy

Great question. The typical "good" return to any type of marketing is about 2%. Many marketing experts will say they shoot for a 5:1 return ratio or earning $5 for every $1 spent. A 10% return is considered exceptional.

I have found that since entertainment business is a very specific type of business if you use entertainment business-based marketing you can regulary get 20-30% returns and once more established even higher.

The problem I see most performers make is they try to use typical conventional types/methods of marketing and advertising for their entertainment business, which again a return rate of 2% is consider decent. So while you did mention FB Ads, which is a more conventional social media source the return you mentioned is pretty good.

Personally, if you understand entertainment business there are much more beneficial forms of marketing and advertising, even for kids performers. In one of my businesses we stopped all paid advertising decades ago and still doubled our business each and every year until we couldn't handle any more which I've discussed here before. It was all done with just a simple formula.

One of them regularly generates $10,000 a month in marketing (for free), again when you know and understand entertainment business and related marketing, advertising, and promotion. In another of my businesses we advertise not to get or expect a return but simply to keep our name and status out there.

Thanks for the reply Mindpro. I don't want to get bogged down to much with Maths, but just wanted to clarify.

So in your example shooting for a 5:1 return would yield 500%. Am I correct on this? So a 10% return would be low. Perhaps I am missing something.

You also mentioned about non traditional marketing. I will be honest here and let you know that I haven't looked into (research) anything other than traditional types. Is there a resource to get a understanding of these or is it just experts in the entertainment business knowledge?

Thanks again.

Yes, a 5:1 ratio has a ROI and ROAS of 500%. This is very good by industry standards. Most consider 2:1 or 3:1 very acceptable depending on the medium.

I think it's just having more knowledge in the entertainment industries rather than general business knowledge. But I will tell you most entertainers operate on a consumer and conventional level so it would be incorrect to believe most entertainers know of and understand this.

I will also tell you I have always enjoyed my greatest success with NTR/NTM for several key reasons. They often have a much greater return, most people (performers) do not know or understand these, and because of the exclusive effort and creation of these there are very few if any others in this space. Again, you have to truly know and understand entertainment business, but once learned and understood you have a source almost to yourself. And of course with this comes fantastic returns, ROI and ROAS.

No, I have never seen NTM for the entertainment industry published anywhere in books. Even in my materials I don't have them published in any of my books and save this all for coaching students. Again, even many in the industry don't know about these and those that do pretty much keep it to themselves and do not want to share or have others know about it. The problem is when others know or find out about them, they no longer remain non-traditional, but rather more of the conventional norm. In traditional business things like social media, blogs, podcasting, loyalty programs, memberships, continuity programs, affiliate marketing, content marketing, influencer marketing, and emailing were all once non-traditional and are now considered more normal or mainstream.

This is such a great question as it gets to the core of a subject that decides how successful the business really is.

That is what the cost is to acquire a customer? Once it is all said and done and you add in your time and money what is that end cost? I have never actually seen anyone consider this here and it is SO important!

As for ROI I really hate to say it but it does depend on the medium. An ROI on mailing is very low. In cold calling a hit list maybe higher.

Great topic.

Has there been any type of advertising that just didn't work for somebody?

I know there was a weekly print paper that came to people's houses in my area. I had thought about advertising in there, but I realized that I never even looked up anything in there.

Andy,

Honestly, for many businesses, most paid adverting is a waste of money. Still, most businesses feel they need to do some anyway, especially when it's a new business. And it is a tax deduction so it's not always a complete waste. But it's your free advertising that you can round up that usually gives you the best results. Of course this does require time, and some will tell you that time is money. But that's only true for those using that same time doing something useful. I personally think it's just a lazy person saying.

Now to share a few general thoughts: When it comes to effective advertising, targeting a specific demographic is crucial. In your case, targeting women aged 25 to 45 years old is a great strategy. However, it's important to not stop there. To truly reach this target audience, it's essential to consider the places where these women spend their time. One great place to target would be daycares. Many women in this age range are likely to have young children, and therefore may be spending a lot of time dropping off and picking up their kids from daycare. By promoting/advertising in these locations, you're able to reach these women at a time when they're likely to be receptive to your message. Schools are another great place to target. Whether these women are dropping off their own children or simply passing by on their way to work, schools are a hub of activity during the day. By placing your ads in strategic locations around schools, you're able to capture the attention of busy moms on the go. Toy stores are another excellent place to target.

In places where they can be used, the small roadside signs can get people's attention when placed near stop signs etc, Words like Magic makes it even a better attention grabber.

Also, in today's fast-paced world, a strong online presence has become a must have for any businessperson striving to thrive in the competitive landscape. The digital revolution has transformed how ALL businesses operate, connect with customers, and establish their brand image. With the majority of people relying on the internet for information and transactions, neglecting to build a robust online presence can be detrimental to a business's success.

Get your name in front of as many groups on Facebook as possible. And I’m talking about teachers and other groups that fall into your target audience. I know most magicians like having mainly other magicians as friends on social media but that’s not your target audience. Spread your name where it counts. It takes time but, in the end, it's your best advertising and its free. Do some research on ‘How To’ promote yourself on social media. Keep in mind, promotion and advertising are two different things. Promoting yourself can be free but done right it's much better than throwing money into ads.

Now to comment on the weekly print papers you mentioned. Sometimes they can work but I would think for your target audience, they would rarely open them and be more apt to look online for info they were seeking. Still if its free or very little cost it could be worth a 'test' a time or two.

Tom

Every type. Literally. Every single type of advertising has not worked for most performers. However, it is not the type of advertising's fault it is the buyer's, in this case the performer.

As Danny said, this is a great topic, yet a topic most will not spend any time or depth with to truly understand which is why most lose money in their marketing and advertising efforts.

Just like I regularly say - if you have properly made the right decisions and addressed the proper elements correctly in the Foundational process of setting up your business, soooo many of the typical problems and setbacks most performers experience will be eliminated as so many other elements, such as marketing, promotion, and advertising, will almost work themselves out and provide answers almost automatically.

While, the same applies with marketing and advertising. Most one see advertising only on the surface level - I pay this amount that the advertising costs, and then I wait and hope for a return. In almost all cases you will lose. This is not how advertising works or should be approached.

There are many elements to advertising and the different types of advertising that must be determined and in place before even expecting it to work. Strategies, campaigns, calls to action, response formula, customer acquisition cost, and so much more.

Using the longtime big 3 - radio, television, and print (newspapers, magazines, fliers, inserts, etc.), I have seen so many people just buy ads and then become very disappointed when no results occur. The first thing they (falsely) believe is the medium doesn't work, and that they've "tried that and lost money." Both on the surface appear true but in reality the medium did just what it was supposed to do - placed your ad in its medium, period. Your message was placed in front of their audience. They did and completed their responsibility. What didn't happen is you didn't use or utilize their medium properly or understand the use of their medium properly and therefore got the results you deserved.

In my radio station we would see this all the time. People couldn't understand why. Why do some of your advertisers get these fantastic results, yet when I do the same advertising program I get absolutely 100% nothing? It is because the first advertiser knew and understood how to use the radio advertising format for their business. They understood the different types of radio advertising and that each type had different expectations.

Like so many things magicians and many other types of performers THINK they know something about marketing, advertising and promotion, but all they really know is what it appears to be on the surface. When they do the math it doesn't work for them, so they pull back and do the worst thing - they do nothing. Instead of putting in the time and mind power to think and determine how can I make this medium really work for my business?

One of the reasons I have had so many kids or kids/family performers I've coached, consulted and trained is because I have done extensive work - research and development for marketing, promotion, and advertising programs, strategies and campaigns just for these types of performers and markets. Do you know the next 11 weeks is one of the strongest times of the year for the best marketing and promotional campaigns for kids performers? To have their business in front of thousands of ideal prospects for very little costs? Most do not.

Just one of my proven promotion, marketing, and advertising programs (yes, it covers all three aspects) almost assures you becoming your area's top kids performer, with celebrity recognition and status throughout your community, generating many, many bookings now as well as into the future, and pretty much allowing you to dominate the kids performance markets you are choosing to work with, and allowing this one single source ot be your primary (if not only needed) source of advertising. This has been proven for decades in markets worldwide. Yet most kids/family performers will have never heard of it and if they do will immediately reject it for believing it is too good to be true, or because of the price involved. This unfortunately is how the typical magician or performer thinks and works.

I could go on and on about different research and development programs I have created as a result of all of this. For years I would hear from performers who would say "I tried radio, t.v., newspapers, and magazine advertising and it is so costly and I didn't get any results. It was expensive, then it was over and done. They immediately deemed these mediums too costly, ineffective, and not worth their time, effort, money or consideration. Then I released my Press & Media book (no longer available, as it is now a course) and I heard from hundreds of performers throughout the world who said they generated tens of thousands of dollars in feature stories in newspapers and magazines,and guest segments on radio and t.v. that exposed them to thousands of viewers and readers - ABSOLUTELY FREE! It cost them nothing when they were armed with all of the elements on how to best use these mediums to their performing businesses' unique advantages. It's been crazy!

Why did it work? What was they difference from what they had previously spent (and lost) on advertising in these mediums? It is the missing aspects beyond the surface that they were missing. I had done all of the work for them all they had to do was follow the structure, system, and program. It works because it is understood and executed beyond just the surface level. They had an education on how the media works, the language they speak, their wants, needs and expectations, the "whys", and so much more that once understood, allowed many of them to do all of this in as little as a week, most within a few weeks to 30 days.

The problem is twofold - 1. Knowledge - they lack the knowledge and real understanding, and 2. the unwillingness to educate themselves properly and then invest in themselves and their businesses.

Most aren't really actually businesses, but playing self-employed "business."

As far as customer acquisition, one must first look at the LVC - Lifetime Value of a Customer. If all of your efforts are for a onetime customer and booking, your customer acquisition cost will be outrageous. So therefore your efforts should be on extending the lifetime value of that customer. Once figured out this may lead you to the best source(s) of which to utilize for marketing, advertising, and promotion.

So, none of the advertising will work on just a surface level - SEO, Adwords, print, radio, t.v., mailings, websites, carrier pigeons, etc. What works for you is what advertising strategy, approach, campaign, CTA, and more are exclusively designed for your business, market, and specific medium.

Again, great topic and kudos for wanting to learn more about this.

Not understanding that time is money may explain a lot.

The correct meaning of the ogre refers to time being a limited commodity. You can never get it back. If you don’t spend that time properly you simply lose it. So off you waste that time by crazy ideas instead or listening to the wrong people about business you can never get it back. You have lost all that money and can never recover that money.

How can it be said by lazy people when it is about maximizing your time for work? This is a misunderstanding on a fundamental level and an odd one. Time management is one of the most important skills anyone who owns a business can possibly learn and want to improve. It can give you a raise while at the same instant giving more time to make more money! Every successful company in the world practices this. It uses a basic concept but it matters more than most others.

If you want to work locally you need to find out where most locals get their buying information from before you strike out and try. Different people do it different ways. I’d avoid starting with free stuff. If free stuff was going to get you the best results it is hard to imagine a multi billion dollar industry existing in advertising.

Plus, if so, everyone would be doing it and other methods/mediums wouldn't exist.

Oh I completely agree that one should use their time wisely. Sitting on the couch waiting for the phone to ring from an ad is not always wise. Those who ‘Hustle’ seems to have the most success, and that's a fact.

Tom

I thought that was a "lazy person saying"? Words mean things and in this forum more than any other they can be expensive.

Once again NOBODY BUT YOU said to "sit on the couch and wait for the phone to ring". You made that up. Advertising is a part of a puzzle. Leaving out those pieces will simply give you an unfinished unrecognizable picture.
I have NEVER ONCE bought or considered purchasing something from a cardboard sign next to a stop sign. It looks EXACTLY like what it is. As a matter of fact if I WAS considering using someone and I saw them on such a sign, I would STOP considering using them. You will never raise above that level if you start doing that stuff.

Nothing in business, certainly the entertainment business, means more than how you are perceived. Advertising is a big part of that. Image management means a LOT.

Danny, it’s clear you know nothing about starting a ‘LOCAL” Business.
And yes there is such a thing as the local magician/performer. Especially when
we talking about kidshow performers. Those who have positioned themselves
right over a little time will rarely worry about getting business, everybody will know their name.

But I will agree that if you trying to be perceived as a headliner big time performer,
you may want to go in a different direction.

Tom

Signs are more effective than you might think Danny, I wouldn't use cardboard though.
Bandit signs are essentially little billboards.

Let me be VERY clear. Tom I do know about starting local businesses. FAR more than you think I do obviously. It is fairly clear you know nothing about advertising and getting the name out there. Yea you can get the name out there, everyone can know who you are and recognize you and if you are "known" for this type of advertising do you consider that a success? If you want to be a local performer a reputation is EVEN MORE essential! Ugh.

But here is my point. You WILL brand yourself with those types of signs. No doubt. People WILL recognize your name and they WILL associate you with exactly what that looks like. If that is the association you want then go for it. I don't believe, even as a children's performer this would be an association I would want.

Let me ask you something when you believe this is a good way to go. Do you believe this will raise your perceived value, or will it lower it? It was a trick question. It will CONSIDERABLY lower it. But hey at least everyone knows you right?

Yes those are "little billboards" but are they conveying the message you want? You could have a business that has a thriving clientele handing out your cards for kids shows and that is great. High traffic, lots of people in and out all day and night! But if that business is an adult book store do you want the message that is being conveyed attached to you?

Those "little billboards" will say a WHOLE LOT about you that you are not even considering. What that message is I'm guessing is 100% different than you would want. But go ahead. Not up to me.

If it works to elect a local Mayor, A Governor, or even a President. Or if it works to get thousands to come see the Circus that came to town, then it would probably work for a magician I would think, Well No, I know for a fact it will work to get people to a magic show or even help kick off a million-dollar business. I know because I’ve done it, more than once.

And NO I’m not saying this should be your regular advertising method. But it is one that does works.

Also, if I were just starting, I would never position myself as a kidshow magician that only performs for children. Nothing wrong with that, but why pigeon-hole your business to a small audience. I would be known as the local Family Magician that performs for more than just children. There is no rule that a ‘Magician’ can’t perform for all age levels. I did it and I know some magicians today, some on here, that can put on a good show for a Daycare, a School, a Church group, or a Company meeting. Many do birthday shows with more adults in the audience than children and everybody walks away please. I call those kind a Family Magician.

Tom

Andy, as I always say...Be careful who you listen to!

Knowledge and experience differs from opinions and "I would think?"

An opinion is the lowest form of human knowledge.

You think it works to elect a mayor and that is relevant to the magic business? Why not check how much of the budget to get them elected is allocated to these signs as opposed to media advertising and get back to us? Oh lord.

Not to mention all of the candidates who also use these signs and lose. Far more than win.

Danny, I checked and here is what I decided. If the huge media advertising budget worked so well alone, why did they go to the trouble of printing and putting out small signs around town. It’s simple, they wanted to reach and remind ‘local’ people of what they were doing. If they had the time to do it, they would gladly drop the big ads, and shake hands and kiss babies all day to get their name out there. They would do it because they understand that the closer you get to the local people the more likely they will support you.

And to be clear, I'm not suggesting anyone here put out signs and go businesses to business handing out cards. It's a lot and I mean a lot of work. Just saying it is one thing that can and has worked for some.

Tom