I'm getting in the Ninja rings and one DVD in may, and here's my question: My original DVD was going to be Michael Ammar's complete cups and balls, but I have heard people say that the ninja rings are worthless without the DVD. is this true?

Do you know anything about ring routines?

The rings are just props same as the 5 dollar empire rings or any Linking Rings(11 inch or whatever)...

If you don't know how to use them they are a waste of money...

the whole point is the routine which is taught on the DVD, you can do that routine with any 5in set of linking rings...

It would be like buying a Svengali deck that isn't even put together and you've never seen it before.... you may be able to work out something or even set them up correctly, but you won't be doing any good magic with them unless you put in a ton of time/work or until you buy a book/dvd/booklet that teaches you how to use it.

Sorry, I guess I meant something like "do they have instructions and are the instructions any good".

1 they have instructions

2 mine were in japanese so they didn't help a lot and I can't tell if they were any good.

The paper instructions are great. they clearly show how to do the rings moves.
you will understand them completely.

However, will your audience like the routine you perofrm based on those instructions if you put the same amount of time into learning them as you would learning the ninja routine on the ninja DVD? not likely.


cough up the bucks.

if I had to spend $200 on that one routine, it would have been worth it to me as I use the routine constantly. I use it to build crowds, I use it strolling, I use it all the time. before I did a large rings routine, I used it even more than I do now.

my routine still resembles the ninja routine with no table moves.
I started with the simple patter on the DVD.
Now it's quite different with a lot more interaction and comedy bits
(cuz I'm a funny guy).

also:
depending on the rings you get, the instructions might also be written clearly in japanese.

I say go for the DVD. It's well produced, well performed, well expalined, and a bargain at 10x the price.. . .if you use the routine.

The Ninja Ring DVD is a very worthwhile investment as you'll learn several great routines that the pros use. Think of it this way, spend the 20 bucks now and you will have a lot more money in your wallet later.

Frank,

Are people really in awe of the magic or the skill? (Hopefully both, I guess.) But my point is...I'm afraid it's overexposed. What kind of reactions do you get? You obviously think it's well worth the time and financial investment…

OK…what I’m really trying to say…I want them and I want someone to talk me into it! I’m a juggler and fairly dextrous…how quickly will I be able to do a short but decently impressive routine?

One legit question. Are the “Ninja” brand rings better than cheap rings? Are the silver ones better than the budget ones?

Thanks,
Daniel

Always buy the best. You get what you pay for.

There are 3 types.

ninja rings are high quality and I like them the best. I use silver not gold.
I see no reason for gold rings and extra expense.

empire cheapo rings. these are also descent rings and the chrome will chip after about a year. but he welds look good.

royal rings look bad but are ok for practice.


as far as the routine goes, you CANNOT worry that it is over-exposed.
NOBODY knows what a crash link is. NOBODY.
NObody knows that 2 rings are in a chain.
Some people (and I'm not sure why) do think there's a hole/gap in one of the rings.
They think that THIS IS THE secret.

SO... add them all together and the moves that are done completely blow the wise-guy out of the water because their apparent "i know how it's done" solution does not match what is happening with the rings.

This is THE genius of the method.

They are really in awe of almost all the moves. from the crash to the long chain from previously all linked rings. None of it makes sense to anyone and what I like the best is that the wise-guy is in the worst of all positions as what they think they know is getting slapped in their face over and over again as wrong.

It's a very elegant routine that plays up high, and I should stop talking about it now. ....

I perform Ninja Rings in my restaurant work on a regular basis, and I perform a full 8 ring routine in my parlor show. If you have no past experience with the rings and you want to learn routines with BOTH types of rings, I would recommend "The Worlds Greatest Magic - Linking Rings" DVD. It has 3 ring routines, 6 ring routines, 8 ring routines and a nice ninja ring routine.

The only two people who were officially taught the Ninja Rings were Shoot Ogawa and Dan Fleshman. The routine you learn on the above DVD is Fleshman's routine. It's very clean an visual (note: I would still eventually invest in Shoot's DVD as well - its absolutely stunning). But the best part of the DVD is its price - It's only about $20.00 - YOU CAN'T BEAT THAT!

Kent

I am sold.

Did I miss something? I have seen Fleshman's routine on VHS a long time ago, and then Shoot put out the Ninja Rings Routine on DVD. I didn't know that The Close-up Linking Rings VHS was also on DVD.

Perhaps I am reading this wrong.

RevJohn

I've seen fleshman's routine on VHS and I don't think it stacks up well against the routine shoot does. not even close.
perhaps a later shot was better?

dan's one-hand blocked crash link was done very poorly on the video.
his moves are not nearly as precise and beautiful as shoot's.
shoot spends a lot of time discussing beauty, elegance, speed, body language, showmanship, etc. Not only with his routine but with other variations that
he does not do. This is extremely important to the success of the rings and a huge amount of detail that IS NOT offered
on any of the other DVDs I've ever seen (except chris capehart's at the beginning where he discusses the necessity of being able to 'display the rings').

Being "officially" taught the routine "by the master" means nothing.
Sounds good but after seeing the
vhs, I'm suspect of his performance on the DVD but willing to give him the
benefit of the doubt if someone has seen both and tells me there is a great improvement. even after being taught by the master, he clearly states on the
VHS that it takes him usually 3 or 4 tries to get the one-hand blocked carsh link.
WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????

Tthe rule of thumb here is: Don't skimp. Get the ninja DVD and then gather other offerings (as you should always do when you perform professionally) to see how other ideas might suit you.

I have not seen the recent rings DVD but will probably get it soon.

For a restaurant routine, I feel 4 rings is enough to be carrying around and packs quite a whallop. Just my opinion on that.

My rings came with Japanese instructions, so the DVD was a big help. Besides, there's nothing like "virtual personal instruction." Well, expect REAL personal instruction....and that would cost more than $20!

The Ninja Rings are much better than the Empire or Royal rings, IMO. The other rings just don't feel right, and the moves seem to be harder.

As for being overexposed, I have more people come up and say "I thought I knew how that was done" with this routine than any other. It just looks impossible.

Maybe I was able to read more in between the lines of the Fleshman DVD because I had the prior benefit of watching and learning Shoot's DVD. Having already become familiar with the moves on Shoot's DVD, I didn't need to spend a lot of time with Fleshman's explanations In any case, Frank is absolutely right. You do get quite a few more moves on Shoot's DVD and the psychology is invaluable.

I am in no way suggesting that a person should dispense with Shoot's DVD in favor of learning the Fleshman rotuine. Learn both. The more arrows you have in your quiver the better.

I've created a routine that combines moves from both DVD's and it plays well in a restaurant situation. I find that Fleshman's performing style is much closer to my own and I like the way he actively gets spectators involved in the routine. I also like that, at the end of the routine, each of the 4 rings appears to have been separately unlinked, leaving me in a very nice "applause" position.

But, we have to remember that the World's Greatest Magic DVD does not limit you to a single close up linking rings routine. It goes way beyond that and provides the viewer with 5 or 6 other ring routines to play around with as well. That's why I recommend this DVD for someone just getting into the rings. It is the variety of routines and moves the viewer will be exposed to that makes this DVD worthwhile.

Just one guy's humble opinion

Kent

I agree about getting the WGM DVD which I've already ordered. In fact, I've tried to get all the rings DVDs and booklets I can.

So far, my favortes are: Ninja, Capehart, Cellini
using 4,3,2 rings respectfully.

I also like Whit Haydn's routine as well.

The reason for the gold rings and extra expense is two fold.
1) The gold comes with a bag to hold the ninja rings, but most importantly, a little clip that holds them together and also covers the secret part of the gimmicked rings when you take them out.
2) the gold rings look better.

So I'd reccomend the gold rings, but you can only get them from http://www.holyshoot.com now, maybe bob Kohler still has some?

Anyway, the Ninja Rings DVD is fantastic, Shoot is very good with them. It's a very well produced DVD and the instruction is great, as well as the short history on the ninja rings.

The instructions that come with the ninja rings ARE in Japanese, but are good basic instructions.

Shoot also came out with a set of Lecture notes written in English (admittedly poor English) that are cheaper than the DVD.

Overall, I'd say the DVD is your best bet. If you give it the time it deserves, the Ninja rings is a beautiful routine that will serve you well.
Also, if you're lucky enough to catch Shoot while he's on his lecture tour, he does a seperate workshop with a small group on the Ninja Rings for about $30 that will teach you alot, as well as giving you the opportunity to work with Shoot Ogawa.

The gold rings are available in several places. I even have them myself
gold rings

And a bag is imporant. I use my own design
BAG

I used to use just a drawstring bag but the jingling around of the rings was
not good. I wanted something that could be used for things other than just rings
but would also keep the rings compressed and snug and not move around.
Made a big difference as I now know exactly what is where when I take out the bag.

Stormchaser,

I attended the live lecture, bought the DVD and the Samrai-Ninja (genuine Ninja) rings. The lecture is certainly better than the DVD. The paper instructions are not in English. The DVD is good. I am disappointed with the rings themselves. The routines are great. I find nothing special about the rings. They are just the props. The lecture was a deal. (It was Shook, not Flashman.)

Ultimately, I went back to the larger rings that will fit over my head. So did my wife in her show. Our set of small rings with the DVD is in the pile of things to go back into storage. It was one of those things I enjoyed at a convention but did not improve the show. But I do look forward to what he has next. These just right aren't for me.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

I spent the day with Shoot yesterday. He showed me a ton of little touches that he's perfected since we shot the video. No doubt that Shoot is a perfectionist and he continues to work on routines even though most would already consider them perfect.

I was amazed that he's managed to make the illusion of the rings linking much more impossible. It's most refreshing to see someone push the limits past what were previously possible. If you get a chance to attend one of Shoot's workshop, don't miss it. If you know he's coming practice the work on the Ninja Rings DVD so that you can absorb the new work he's sharing.

I believe that if you're going to invest the time in learning the Ninja Rings you MUST use the rings that Shoots teacher Masahiro supplies to the US market through Murphy's Magic. Some of the differences are not apparent until you actually try to do the moves. The metal has just the right amount of spring in it to make many of the moves not only easier but practical.