Expert Card Technique explains an up the ladder cut with Charlie Miller’s strip out but I have never seen the current cardmen use this why is that?

The Charlie Miller strip out is a difficult move. Combining his shuffle and then up the ladder, although difficult, is very deceptive. The only magicians I have seen do this are Charlie Miller himself, Harry Riser, and Milt Kort. I do the move, which I learned from Riser and Kort many years ago. I am sure that others do the move, as well.

A point to consider: Erdnase depicts a very open action during his top and bottom stock controls - the packets are gripped almost at the very ends. I've seen footage of Vernon, Miller, Bertram etc stripping and undercutting with this style. This style was probably the standard in magic from Erdnase right up until a few decades ago.

In the 80s, Forte put out his Gambling Protection Series. There was also his hugely influential appearance on Hidden Secrets of Magic in the 90s. A lot of cardmen (knowingly or not) have adopted a style of stripping similar to Forte, which involves gripping the deck much nearer towards the middle of the long side (see his comments on the "protected position in GSOH)

The Miller Strip Out seems to be designed in such a way that the actual strip out action needs to be done from the extreme ends - which does not fit how a lot of people strip, including base strips and up the ladder.

No idea how true this might be, but it was interesting to think about.

Jack

Well, Jack, Your argument sounds convincing to me! Here's Charlie in action:



I can think of a handful of current cardicians who use Charlie's Strip-Out False Shuffle. Jason England has a video tutorial on it. Guy Hollingworth, Denis Behr, and Jack Carpenter do similar shuffles that appear to be based on Charlie's false shuffle. Jason Ladanye uses the technique with a block transfer.

Maybe gambling routines and tablework are simply not as popular as they once were.

Marty

Here's another relevant video about Charlie and his attitude to magic from another departed master of the craft:



Marty

Jack, thank you. Thanks to you other guys for your insights the stripout listed was the first and only one I knew and used for many years I read some of the books on the push through and learned it years later I now favor Rod the Hop’s and the Zarrow. I will brush up on Charlie’s up the ladder.

If you're asking why you don't see Charlie's strip out AND the UTL false cutting sequence together very often I would say it's probably because the shuffle is pretty difficult to do well. John Luka mentioned that already in this thread and I agree it's most like the primary reason. By itself, I see UTL performed often, but typically not with that shuffle.

Jason

Here are a few other factors that I think might be in play.

I believe this combination is not described in Card College.

Expert Card Technique is no longer part of the canon for newcomers.

The description of the combination in Expert Card Technique requires careful reading to decipher.

The technique described in Expert Card Technique, where the packet is broken into three sub packets, is difficult to perform with a smooth rhythm. It is much easier to smoothly perform the handling described in The Card Magic of Le Paul and Revelations which only involves two sub packets.

The Card Magic of Le Paul and Revelations are even less widely studied by newcomers nowadays than Expert Card Technique.

Other ways of finishing the shuffle (triple undercut, triple running cut, base strips, etc.) have been popularized by folks like Richard Turner and Steve Forte. Up the ladder is no longer the only well known multiple cut sequence with which one can end a shuffle.

Still, it's a fine way to end a shuffle, so don't be afraid to use it if you want to just because you don't see many other people using it.

Andru

The question I had did not pertain to the stripout shuffle it is more difficult but only to the up the ladder cut which is different than any I have seen by very good cardmen including Steve Forte.