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toothlessrufus New user 38 Posts 
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This was a post in the equivoque topic but I think it deserves a standalone thread. This is in reference to the stack used in the Lew Brooks effect order from chaos:
https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......&forum=2 Ok. So I tried two ways to do this set up the entire deck in the stack and alternating red and black. Would then either just pull it out of the deck then do two riffle shuffles or already have it in the tuck box after having done the two riffle shuffles from the set up. (Even though the entire deck is stacked at casual glance the deck looks well shuffled) Then do a false shuffle and cut. So then any of the suits could be called. And then proceed with the trick. And it worked a few times. But then it appeared that the multiple stacks were sometimes not surviving two riffle shuffles which I thought was the rule. I reset the deck to all suits stacked every time it didn’t work out but it still kept happening that once in awhile a card was out of order from where it was supposed to be in the reverse stack when those name suit was taken out of the deck. Sometimes the reverse stack would just be shifted so I could pretend to pick up in two separate parts then reassemble correctly but often there was a card that was entirely out of sequence instead. So I am confused why the stacks are not following the rule that all stacks will survive 2 riffle shuffles.unless this just applies to a single stack in the deck. But it seems to me it shouldn’t matter if all the other cards in a suit are stacked relative to any other |
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1tepa1 Inner circle 1282 Posts
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If you understand why a singular stack will survive two riffle shuffles, then you can easily understand why they would not survive also.
If you have 13 cards on top of the deck in order and you cut the deck into two piles, as long as all those 13 cards are in one pile meaning you cut off at least 13 cards, the order will not be changed because you will merely be shuffling other cards in between those 13 cards. If your riffle was very even, the cut was very close to 26 cards etc, then the stack of 13 cards is now starting somewhere from in between the top card to about the 26th card. If the shuffle was not that even it could be that the last card or cards of the the 13 cards is in the position of 30 to 40 instead. This then means that when you make the second cut for the second riffle shuffle, if you cut the deck at halfway point, 26, you are leaving the last cards of the stack behind. Then when you shuffle the stacks together those cards that are left behind will get shuffled in between the cards that are in the stack. In case of 4 suits in order or 4 stacks in a deck, you need to make the first shuffle even, with an even cut, cutting the deck exactly at the midway point. And then during the second cut you compansate and make the cut bigger in accordance with which suit you want to retain. What actually happens during the second cut and shuffle is that if done correctly two of the suits retain their order. So you could do the first shuffle, then ask the spectator if they want red or black, and make the second shuffle depending on which they say, red or black. Then you ask them which suit out of the color they chose. Because 2 suits are left in order, in this case either two reds or two blacks. |
Wravyn Inner circle 3531 Posts
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For a greater understanding of the principle that 1tepa1 is speaking of, Max Maven has a 20+ minute video on YouTube about it. Also, Mat Parrot has a great tutorial about the Galbreath Principle titled Deep Breath which is available at both 1914 Magic and also Vanishing Inc.
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toothlessrufus New user 38 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 7, 2024, 1tepa1 wrote: Cool. Very helpful!this makes sense. I will try this! Thank you! Quote:
On Apr 7, 2024, Wravyn wrote: Thank you I will check these out! |
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1198 Posts
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Hi,
There was a discussion here (in the context of Mind Mirror) about what happens to a 13 card stack if you riffle shuffle twice. https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......forum=37 My conclusion was that the stack can survive two riffle shuffles only under certain conditions (as mentioned above by 1tepa1). This means you have to know what you are doing OR just get lucky. Given the extra complexity of shuffling twice, my opinion is - why bother??? Just because someone said you can do it twice, doesn't mean you have to (now you know it ain't that simple). The other thread about using Equivoque was an attempt to apparently give the spec a free choice of suit. Likewise this thread. If the goal is to convince the spec that everything is fair, I would say the most important factor is that the spectator does the shuffle. Spec shuffling ONCE will be much more convincing than Performer shuffling TWICE. If you can cut the deck perfectly in the middle, then all four stacks will be preserved when the two halves are shuffled together by the spectator. At this point you could simply ask the spec to choose a suit. If you want to throw in an extra shuffle or cut, you could do a false one before or after the spectator shuffle. If you don't trust yourself to split the deck at the exact correct place, then you can ask them to choose a suit before you cut the deck. Then cut slightly higher or slightly deeper according to what they say. If you really want to do two genuine shuffles, my advice would be (1) ask for a suit up-front (2) get that suit to the middle of the deck so it is split by the first cut and shuffle. The thread mentioned above explains why. You should end up with the stack preserve, but probably shifted somewhat. The best way to understand this is to turn the stack cards face up, so you can see step-by-step where they end up. |
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toothlessrufus New user 38 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 10, 2024, Nikodemus wrote: |
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toothlessrufus New user 38 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 10, 2024, Nikodemus wrote: I see my reply didn’t make it on the first try. I like the spectator shuffles once. Just nervous they may do something other than a riffle but I see your point better that they did it. If they do something else I guess can just do a different trick. Also I like the last bit about asking for the suit up front and then placing it with the shuffle. Thank you for these suggestions! |
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toothlessrufus New user 38 Posts
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Interestingly, I just reviewed the stack attack. D v d section for this trick order from chaos and Lew says That you can stack all suits at the beginning for all suits, and let the spectator choose which suit:
" You can also have four suits set up prior to the performance and give the audience their choice. Let them choose whether you were going to use diamonds, clubs, hearts or spades" So I did this again with C-H-aS-eD order and went one by one after two shuffles and obviously as the previous posts note, this approach doesn't usually let you use any suit of the stack. Just wanted to update that Lew himself in the DVD was where I had originally got the idea but had forgotten about it. Interesting that he didn't mention that not all 4 survive 2 shuffles as I imagine he must have know this to be the case. |
Posted: Apr 6, 2024 08:37 am 