The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index :: Ever so sleightly :: False transfer (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Good to here.
Gnorman
View Profile
New user
6 Posts

Profile of Gnorman
Looking to improve my sloppy false transfers, and am looking for recommended resource on the subject.

Thanks!
Tilman
View Profile
Regular user
182 Posts

Profile of Tilman
I recommend studying the work of Al Schneider, especially his book The Theory and Practice of False Transfers (available through Amazon).
It teaches three false transfers in incredible detail (the Schneider Vanish, using the Finger Palm; the Schneider Classic Vanish, using the Classic Palm; the Schneider Ball Vanish, using the Pinky Palm) and some applications. The technical descriptions of these vanishes are great, but, as the title suggests, the book also lays out a theory of why false transfers work and what goes into making them truly deceptive. These are lessons with wider applications.

On the first three (of four) volumes of the L&L Publishing DVD set The Al Schneider Technique, the same three vanishes are also taught, with a large number of applications. These DVDs are a great point of reference for magic that is (partly) driven by false transfers.

You can watch several examples of his execution of false transfers on his website.
Here is his impressive false transfer for small balls in the context of a cups and balls routine (sequence of vanishes starting 30 seconds into the clip):
https://worldmagiccenter.com/WMC/SHOWFORMALCUPSANDBALLS.htm
Here is a video demonstrating coin moves, including the Schneider Vanish and the Schneider Classic Vanish:
https://worldmagiccenter.com/WMC/SHOWMOVES.htm
Tilman
View Profile
Regular user
182 Posts

Profile of Tilman
I don't know where you live and what languages you speak, but if you understand German, I think the natural way Alexander de Cova handles small objects and executes false transfers on his videos from the nineties is still exemplary today.
I'm thinking in particular of the first volume of his DVD set Münzen Leicht Gemacht (Coins Made Easy, teaching thirteen vanishes, many of which are based on false transfers) and the two first volumes of his Keep It Simple! series (on street magic, with some sponge ball work, and the Cups and Balls, respectively).
Those DVDs are still available from German magic dealer Stolina Magie (and maybe others).
I know de Cova also had a (discontinued) DVD dedicated to vanishing techniques, but from the trailer it seems this was mostly about sleeving.
Tilman
View Profile
Regular user
182 Posts

Profile of Tilman
The chapter on naturalness in The Dai Vernon Book of Magic by Lewis Ganson (available as an ebook from lybrary.com) provides an excellent analysis of the French Drop. The Stars of Magic has a chapter on Dai Vernon's Impromptu Cups and Balls routine and includes a description of a different false transfer (referred to as the Basic Sleight).

The work of John Ramsay is another classic source for false transfers. The Ramsay Legend by Andrew Galloway describes The Ramsay Coin Vanish.

Speaking of Vernon and Ramsay, John Carney is a student of the magic of both and has good descriptions and applications of false transfers scattered throughout his own body of work. The Book of Secrets contains an analysis of the French Drop that adds to the description in The Dai Vernon Book of Magic. It teaches small-ball handling through a detailed chapter on the Cups and Balls and in the context of a routine with grapes. His work on the Cups and Balls can be seen on the DVD set (or Vimeo streaming content) The Master Sessions. He also has a DVD (or Vimeo streaming content) on a Cups and Balls routine with coffee mugs, which I haven't seen. Other relevant sources from him are his DVD Carney On Ramsay (teaching the Ramsay Vanish) and a more recent DVD (or streaming content) titled Vanishing Coins.
Tilman
View Profile
Regular user
182 Posts

Profile of Tilman
Having mentioned all of these sources (and, of course, there are many more), I still think Al Schneider's work is the best starting point for learning false transfers.

Lastly, here's a set of questions that I think anyone learning false transfers would do well to answer for themselves:
- Why do I (seemingly) move the object from hand to hand? What's the motivation? Do I need one?
- How did the object get into the hand from which it is (seemingly) transferred in the first place? What is the motivation for that? (Was it perhaps picked up to display it?) Do I need one?
- What would it look like if I really did it? How far can I approximate it? Do I need to?
- What are the elements of the real action that signal to others that the object was transferred from one hand to the other?
- How does the receiving hand close? How does the wrist of that hand behave? What suggests to a viewer that the object is still there after the (false) transfer?
- How does the hand that was freed relax? Where does it relax (table top, at side of body, in front of stomach?)? Or where does it go? What object does it grip and how? How does the wrist of that hand behave? What prevents a viewer from considering that the object could be in that hand after the (false) transfer?
- Where is my gaze before, after and while I (seemingly) transfer the object? Where do I direct attention?
- How do my arms and shoulds move in this sequence of movements? What is the direction of my feet and body?
- Does the object (seemingly) stay in the same spot in space (with the hands moving around it) or does it move in space as the (pretended) transfer occurs? What does look better in the given instance? Think of isolation in space in contact juggling and mime.
- If the object (seemingly) moves through space, what is its direction of travel: vertical, horizontal, etc.? What is the distance it travels? What looks best?
- If the false transfer sets up a vanish: In what way do I make the object disappear? What is the process of magic? How do I signal it?
- What prevents viewers from wanting to see the palming hand, or even paying attention to it, after they have seen the object is not in the other hand?
- Object logistics: Where does the object go after having been palmed? Is it ditched? Do you continue to hold it out?

Good Cups and Balls routines and some multi-phase coin routines answer some of these questions for us and provide a readymade environment for the false transfer to live in. But there is lots to discover.

Good luck!
Gnorman
View Profile
New user
6 Posts

Profile of Gnorman
I truly appreciate all the info. Thanks so much...!
ajb6864
View Profile
Special user
Greece
638 Posts

Profile of ajb6864
Bravo Tilman Smile

Probably the best ever response to a request for assistance and truly a MAGICIAN helping magicians!
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
9997 Posts

Profile of funsway
Yes, very fine analysis, Tilman.

As known, I have developed some unique ways of answering several of these questions - not for everyone - something to be discovered for others.


One factor is realizing that you cannot just take favorite sleight and cram it into a new routine.
Even worse is substituting a favorite sleight for the recommended method without fully understanding the development and flow of the entire routine.

"False Transfer" is an approach to creating the illusion of "perceived known location where the object is not." It is no the only approach.
There are many methods to execute and support this illusion. "Favorite" should have little to do with the choice of "best" for the desired end result.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
21276 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
In truth the only research you need for this is a mirror. No kidding.

Actually place an object in your hand. Do it hundreds of times. Look at every detail as you do it and after you do it. Look at how you remove the other hand and what position that is in when you do so. (This is the part of the false transfer almost everyone gets wrong.)

Once you have this done then start doing a false transfer, and make it look like the way you just finished doing it for real. Do it until it looks like when you do it naturally. Nobody can teach you this you can absolutely make it look so natural it goes invisible.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
2858 Posts

Profile of Bob G
In the same spirit as Danny's post: The Theory and Practice of False Transfers (Al Schneider), which Tilman mentioned, has lots of drills that help learn the various components of his false transfers. The idea is that, if you do the drills for long enough, you will eventually have modified the way *he* does the moves to a way that's natural to *you*. Unlike Danny's idea, this is an unconscious process.
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
9997 Posts

Profile of funsway
An Danny offers "Nobody can teach you this you can absolutely make it look so natural it goes invisible."

Good advice from a limiting perspective. Making a silly move look natural is only part of the desired end result.

Face it. There is no placement of an object in the other hand that will be seen as "natural" if there is no reason for the transfer in the first place.
The power of the illusion "not there where expected" comes from manipulating the perceptions of the observer, not from the love of a particular sleight.

Yes, making you moves seem invisible can be a good approach. How about having them never remember that a transfer occurred at all - especially an unnecessary one?
I highly recommend Al's book - plus the many hours making it real. No "quick fix" here.

The problem is that what face is not "false" vs "real,' but why a transfer is involved at all. If it is natural an congruous with other actions, any sleight will serve.
If the action is illogical or unnatural, no sleight will escape suspicion.

Your practice can minimize suspicion. How about the concept of "never happened?"

Do I use false transfers? Absolutely - but only when an actual transfer has paved the way or a later actual transfer serves as acquitment.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
Anemoi
View Profile
New user
Cambridge, MA
53 Posts

Profile of Anemoi
Quote:
On Sep 15, 2023, funsway wrote:
There is no placement of an object in the other hand that will be seen as "natural" if there is no reason for the transfer in the first place.
...

The problem is that what face is not "false" vs "real,' but why a transfer is involved at all.


In their master class, Penn & Teller transfer the object to the other hand so the original hand can grab the wand from under the arm (same side as other hand). This as you suggest gives reason for the transfer.
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
9997 Posts

Profile of funsway
It might be noted that gathering or assembling objects in one can make it natural. For example, you have three coin on the table.
One is picked up by the left fingers and one with the right. The right hand coin is dropped into the left hand to show two on the open fingertips.
The third is picked up and apparently added to two in the left hand. If desired, a false transfer can occur to leave one palmed in the right hand.
This can be accomplished with a Retention Type move with inference of their being three coins in the left, or a Utility move to actually show three coins or split gaff.
Either way, the hands follow the pattern established earlier to deceive the perception of the observer. (works with balls also)

So, the problem with most false transfers is the use of a single object with no pattern, rational or justification of the actions of either hand.
Showing the right hand to be empty before any reveal of the left hand can be just as important as the mechanics of the retention.

The Godfather once quipped, "Do not try to convince the audience where a coin is supposed to be. Understand where they know it to be and follow."

Many C&B moves follow this principle, yet little attention is given to change "believing" to "knowing."
Any Chop Cup routine can be enhanced by just once using a method not utilizing the inference based gaff/gimmick. (a false transfer method)
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
martonikus
View Profile
Regular user
167 Posts

Profile of martonikus
Quote:
On Sep 15, 2023, funsway wrote:
Face it. There is no placement of an object in the other hand that will be seen as "natural" if there is no reason for the transfer in the first place.

...

If it is natural and congruous with other actions, any sleight will serve.
If the action is illogical or unnatural, no sleight will escape suspicion.


Bravo to this and to the other great replies in this excellent topic.

One thing I did not yet see mentioned - the convincing power of sound. A "clink pass" can be very deceptive and there is usually a reasonable motivation - placing separate objects (coins) together in one place. Using the "putting" hand to immediately pick something up (a wand, another coin, a glass, etc) completes the picture.

As stated above, it is the combination of solid technique with a strong routine (one that incorporates believable motivations) that makes the sleight work. Both are necessary.
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27302 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
Use your cell phone camera rather than a mirror. Portrait not landscape mode. From the top of your head down to the entire range of action on the table needs to be in frame.

Rehearse the actions with the camera recording. Look at that video. Does the video without sound depict the flow of action you wish to present?

Okay now try the sleight in place of actual transfer. Look at the video.
...to all the coins I've dropped here