What exactly makes you think magic doesn't need feedback from real people?

So doing a few gigs makes you a "professional"?

You seem to have a lot of mis perceptions going. I am not sure they will help you moving forward.

If you have only done a few gigs as you have described before, you do not really qualify as a professional by most standards.

You could always hire a professional coach/director to give you guided rehearsal time with critical feedback and an outside perspective...

This is the absolute BEST suggestion in the thread!

To be fair though he has only done about 12 shows in 6 years. He may not be rest for this yet.

I get it. It is harder to "practice" mentalism without an actual audience or people as so many aspects of mentalism rely and depend on the thoughts, choices, responses, and actions of others. Many can watch a magic show as the magician performs, but most mentalism is much more audience involved as it is they who's thoughts will be read, influenced, their past that will be utilized, and their inner-actions that are the focus of the show. What they're thinking, what they've written or drawn, what they've experienced, etc.

Also, there is a difference in finding a place to perform for a live audience and a "place to be bad" and get some initial stage time, and having a place to perform for real audiences to try out new material, to experience actual responses, and spontaneous reaction from both participants and the audience.

One of the things I'd suggest is to offer your services to existing business events like a local business expo, charity event, or community events for the business community as these would have a feel and dynamic similar to the corporate market you are seeking. Join the local Chamber of Commerce as they too will have events that you can perform at regularly and there may even be some contact you can utilize there as well.

I know the OP has been working at this and doing gigs for a while and I think this brings up a good point and questions that others often overlook. You don't just start out and go to becoming a performer with a full schedule overnight. Most never get there, so even once a professional a great deal of effort (and business operations) must be at play to find steady work. Of course steady work is the best "practice" you can find to get sharp and fine-tune your show from start to finish.

I agree that a coach/director could probably help more than anything. (Talk to Mindpro)

Also, record and watch yourself, sometimes you can be your best teacher.


Tom

I'm already doing personal coaching with Jeff McBride, who is the absolute BEST Magic teacher/coach in the world IMO!

In fact, Jeff suggested that I do some "practice gigs" at retirement centers to get more stage time.

And I agree that watching yourself on video is a great way to get better. I hired a professional video production company to shoot my show in Anchorage last Sunday. And even when I don't have a professional videographer shoot my show, I record myself on video with my iPhone. I'm a former TV news reporter so I am used to seeing myself on TV. It always surprises me when I hear mentalists say "I hate to watch myself on video." If you don't like to watch yourself, why should anybody else want to watch you?

And to reply to another poster about being a "professional performer," I believe that anybody who gets paid to perform is by definition "professional" even if you only do a single paid gig. You were paid to perform. Most mentalists and magicians are hobbyists who never get paid for a performance, and there is nothing wrong with that.

I'm very well off, so I'm not doing this for the money. My goal is to do 1 or 2 paid gigs per month at the very MOST! I have not spent ANY time marketing my mentalist show over the past few years but now I'm starting to get more serious about doing more than an occassional gig here and there. My show is already very good, but everyone can get better. That's why I hired Jeff to coach me up.

Investigative Mentalist,

Well, it certainly sounds like you’re on the right track to meet your goal. Congratulations. Keep it up.

I too believe that one can certainly be a part-time ‘professional’ The meaning is rarely used correctly.

Tom

And it is not being used correctly now is it Tom?

As a matter of fact you are the one who always says, until now, that being professional has nothing to do with if you are being paid but it is a way you conduct yourself. Have you changed that position? I actually agree with that position.

Please clarify for me. You have said many times, and I agree one can be paid and not really be professional.

Yes, I still believe that one can act in a professional way without getting paid. But the general answer to 'what is a professional' is probably best described as An individual who earns money by performing a specialized task or activity. And professionals typically need some sort of education or training.

A magician would certainly need some training to do a show, and they are often viewed by the public as somebody that has learned a special skill.

Of course, I guess with anything, there are good and bad professionals.

Tom

Got it so now to be clear you are changing your position on what a professional actually is?

I am sorry to seem as if I am badgering you but it is two very different positions and I really am just trying for clarification.

Because I personally do believe that anyone who gets paid a couple times a year is technically a "professional" I do not believe it in any sense of the word as it is used colloquially. I believe if you told 90% of the general public you were a "professional" anything they would assume you do it more than an average of twice a year. If I wanted to hire a "professional" plumber I would expect he would work more than twice a year.

Yes a "professional" is one who works for money, and there is no amount of time that is tied to it.

Not changing it at all.

I agree that a professional works for money.

But I also believe that you can ‘act in a professional way' without getting paid a penny.

Truth is, it is only then that you will become known as a professional.

That's just me and I could be wrong, but in the magic world, it's sometimes hard to agree on anything.


Tom

No I don't think you are wrong at thinking professional is more than being paid. You have said it before and I am there with you. But then here you are professing an entirely different position based on money. I am just wondering which one is your position?

This is the most interesting part of the equation. See most performers get better not only out of desire but need. They need to pay bills, they need to have shows to do so. The shows are therefore self correcting because you sort of automatically have to get better to do them.

Being "well off" can be a tremendous hindrance improving as there is no incentive to being anything except what you want it to be. Feedback becomes irrelevant as you have no reason to improve as it doesn't matter to you except as to desire. You can afford to indulge your preferences and there is no downside. Whether the audience likes it or not you can afford to do whatever you feel you want to.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with this. I am pointing out a pitfall that a HUGE percentage of people fall into.

If the goal is to do shows just to indulge yourself then there is absolutely nothing wrong with it at all. If you want to learn to do shows that please and excite an audience it can be detrimental to the process.

I disagree Danny, I do a few paid shows per year that are as good or better than some full-time peformers. I know you are a hard working full-time pro and congrats to you! But I dislike you putting down "part time professionals" as less than worthy.

Is that what you think I said and did in that post? Because if it is you have a serious projection issue happening and may want to investigate that some.

I don't think I put down a part time performer EVER in my life. I have quite to the contrary said that making a living solely from the performance of magic in no way means your show is great. I have said MANY times that I have known MANY part time workers who are as good and in many cases better than guys working at magic full time. I have said here many many times that being the part time worker is the best of both worlds. You don't have the stress of "needing" to work but can sort of pick your battles. Many here have seen me say this more than once.

Doing a few shows a year hardly even qualifies you in much more than a technical sense as a part time worker anyhow ironically enough.

But with all due respect I have NEVER said that part time workers are somehow "less than worthy". Not ever. Never implied it and never said it. So don't project that nonsense on me.

I was pointing out what a wonderful motivator that being "hungry" can actually be. This is true of ANY business. Regardless of how offended you want to be this is still true.

Curiously enough, I recently made the switch from full time to part time in my day gig to give me the flexibility to further pursue magic as a money making venture.

We'll see how hungry I get. I've already tightened the belt as much as I can think to, off hand... I'm NOT getting rid of my subscription to Reel Magic, some expenses are still worth it!