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The Magic Cafe Forum Index :: Nothing up my sleeve... :: Micrediting of the Schneider Pick up move (20 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Michael Rubinstein
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Vinny uses it and not knowing where it came from called it the crimp. He has a lot of novel techniques developed using this position, but the position itself is not original with him.
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tonsofquestions
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Quote:
On Oct 5, 2023, MarcelR wrote:
You mentioned Vinny Marino. Is he the one from Vinsmagic who kindly shared his colorchange? In this video the grip is called crimp. Are there more names out there?


That could also be Marion (MB) who likewise has a lot of work on it and calls his color change the Crimp Change.
Which I say not as a slight (ha!) to either of them, just that from your description it could be either. A lot of Marion's work is for purchase on vinsmagic, while most of Vinny's is on youtube and linked here.
MarcelR
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Thank you, sorry if I was unclear, but I actually meant further names for the Frickle Palm.
funsway
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Eternal Order
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
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Quote:
On Oct 4, 2023, Michael Rubinstein wrote:
Vinny uses it and not knowing where it came from called it the crimp. He has a lot of novel techniques developed using this position, but the position itself is not original with him.



You could be a bit more fair/accurate here. The location of the concealed coin relative to the crease of the thumb is different in the early descriptions of "thumb crotch" positions and later ones.
There is a huge difference in the allowable sleights using such a palming technique(s). The notion of assigning originality might be important for history, but less for concern of functionality.

Clumping all similar palming postures under a label of "thumb palm" or "thumb crotch" could prevent a student from understanding the advantages of one posture over the other.

We readily discuss various "subtleties" as useful variation of "finger palm." The same logic should apply here.
The "Crimp" is not the same as the other referenced postures regardless to any arguments over originality.

I wrote a monograph of these distinctions a decade ago that is available to anyone for the asking. I can no longer do any of them due to arthritis, so there is no charge.

I wrote this because some of my eBooks on coin effects make reference to the Crimp as an option. If you try to use another "Crotch posture," the sleight will not work.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

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MarcelR
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Quote:
On Oct 5, 2023, funsway wrote:

You could be a bit more fair/accurate here.


I did not mean to be unfair or inaccurate and would like to apologize if this impression was given.
In my "defense" I refer to the following video:



At 1:17 he calls the position crimp. Same at 1:33. You could admit that it looks like a Frickle Palm, at least in the eye of a newbie.
Thanks to your post, I have rewatched the clip many times. But it's hard for me to see any difference. However, in some places I finally noticed, that he seems to hold the coin a little lower and not at the base of the thumb. To be honest, I wouldn't have noticed anything if it hadn't been pointed out to me, that there was a difference.

There may still be a lot of "stupid" questions coming from me, but I always try to keep my tone respectful. I also do not want to discuss, because I lack the knowledge. I just want to understand things and learn. Thanks to all for your patience, willingness to answer and sharing your knowledge.
@funsway I would appreciate it if you could share your monograph with me.
Michael Rubinstein
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I also do not understand that there is any difference in position.
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tonsofquestions
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I suspect there's some distinction in the position of the axis of the coin, relative to the thumb, either rotationally or horizontally.
But I, too, would be interested in reading the mentioned document highlighting the nuances.
funsway
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old things in new ways - new things in old ways
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Quote:
On Oct 6, 2023, Michael Rubinstein wrote:
I also do not understand that there is any difference in position.


strange, I know I sent you a free copy of the Amazon published document years ago.

The major factor is that the coin is NOT in the thumb crease for the Crimp, but is there in the older drawings.
When in the crease, the coin may be secure for a palm hide, but is restricted from a quick release or adding other coins.
As I often use the Crimp as transitory to other palming postures, the correct posture is critical.
For many applications, any crotch posture will serve, only distinct from thumb pinch or Down's palm for frontal visibility.

It is like driving a stick-shift car. Usually, an automatic is easier and more convenient.
On the rare occasion when greater control is required, you are glad you know how to use a clutch.
In neither case is it necessary to know who invented the mechanism or the best gear ratios.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
GJo
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On the question of the creator and resulting discussion of related minutia (rotational angles, coin axis, thumb creases and whatnot), I wonder what Mr. Spock would say?

I'm certain Bones would say something about just being a doctor.