I really like Silk to egg, but how much does the "fake hole" thing really strengthen the routine? Any thoughts or experience?

Hawkan

The fake hole as I know it is used to created a sucker effect. In essence, the audience thinks you are showing them how the trick works but then you peel off the fake hole and the audience is further fooled by the routine. It usually gets a strong audience reaction.

Yes, but isn’t it a sucker effect without the fake hole as well? Thinking about it - I can’t remember that Steve Dacri used it in his routine … hmm
Hawkan

I am a bit amused by this. True, the sticker provides a representation of a hole that creates a 'real' perception in the mind of the observers.
To later reveal that their perceptions where wrong might get laugher to cover the feeling of shame or appearing foolish,
but the total impact might be negative. They might now question all of their perceptions and be less open to being astonished by your next Effect.

Another problem is that you have introduced the notion of a hole, gimmicked egg, etc. Why?
They may never have thought "hole" by themselves. Is a fake hole in a fake egg a positive image?

What next? Show folks your TT and then 'prove' it is too small for your thumb?

For me, any reveal of method is unwise. I would prefer that my magic be so strong that the observer just wallows in the awe&wonder
with no thought or need "to figure it out."

Is doing Silk to Egg without the hole still a sucker effect? Not sure. Doesn't the cracking of the egg into a glass
suggest that they had reason to suspect a fake egg(feke) was involved? Why an egg and not a gem or block of wood?
I would think one should perform with the egg now that it has arrived - not destroy it.

Yes, if presented properly and completely, it is a sucker effect. Removing the hole adds to that. That is, if you do crack the egg to complete your performance which should happen, then it is indeed a sucker effect. Keep in mind that your audience thinks you are teaching them how to do it. So, after all of that, when you remove the hole and crack the egg, everything you told them is not true.

I suggest that then performing with the egg is overkill and does not allow for the silk to egg climax. In essence, you are stopping short of completing the effect and then into overkill.

"does not allow for the silk to egg climax" - that is one reason I find this humorous.

If that Effect done in any fashion is the "climax" of my show, then I may as well have stayed home.

But then, I am forever trapped in the notion that my task as a magician is to orchestrate conditions under which "must be magic"
is part of the "story told after." Different strokes ...

I certainly see a place for this trick as entertainment - magic, not so much.

[quote]On Mar 11, 2022, funsway wrote:

If that Effect done in any fashion is the "climax" of my show, then I may as well have stayed home.


I totally see what you mean, the climax of this trick is a bit lame. In theory. But it always goes over very well. I can´t explain why, it just does
My main question was how magicians feel about any need of using the "fake hole" thing.

Hawkan

Yes, I agree with you. I find these presentations boring and not a good look for magic in general; the whole idea of "I will teach you a trick, but you have to keep it secret , ok ?" (wink-wink) and then it turns out your offer to teach them a trick was a joke on them. I suppose I'm not enthused about "sucker" tricks" in general. I acknowledge that sucker tricks will play well for some performers (especially if they don't over-do the "sucker" aspect of it) and I'm sure there will be many magicians protesting that the Sucker Silk to Egg is a highlight of their show. Well, this is good for them , but it doesn't suit my presentation style and if I'm forced to endure watching it don't be surprised if I start to yawn and glance at my watch. I do acknowledge that if performed well it can be a magical moment when the "hole" is removed from the supposed fake egg and it is cracked into a glass to show it is in fact a real egg, but for some reason I have never liked it. (sorry ... not sorry)

Much more magical to me is an effect like the Egg on Fan where a piece of paper or a white flower petal visibly transforms into an egg and just at the moment people are thinking to themselves: "is it a real egg?" the magician cracks open the egg into a glass.

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Jean, You post reminds me that I hold an egg with some reverence when it comes to magic - since they already are. I guess I don't like the sucker thing because it devalues an egg for me to being just a prop or toy. Silly! Folks like eggs because of the fragility and personal experience with egg disasters. Try, "Yesterday I found an egg in my garden that I hid last year for an Easter Egg hunt" and see what reaction you get when you toss it about. Entertaining? Yes. Magic? Not so much.

One of my favorite effects as a teen was baking a cake in some gentleman's hat. There was laughter when I dumped in flour and silence when I poured in milk. But, when I cracked an egg and let it ooze in everyone paid attention. It had suddenly gone from "trick" to "other than possible." As an adult I would sometimes have an egg appear in the middle of a coin routine or even C&R. I would just smile and set it aside. Later on another would appear as an "interlude" to be sit aside with me saying, "When playing with magic I sometime get unexpected help." I did not have to do anything with the eggs. Their presence just elevated the expectations for magic to happen, and made folks imagination the hero rather than me.

If using eggs appearing as a running gag throughout a show, and at one point when tucking a silk into the hand showing the (real) hole in the egg, showing the hole would be pointless and just revealing for its own sake. Revealing the hole in the routine this thread is about is, in my mind, not a problem as it sets up the sucker ending. Like that or not. But again, the topic of this thread was about the pros and cons of the fake hole.

Hawkan

If this is in response to my post, I never mention any activity as "a running gag." I was talking about creating conditions under which magic can happen in the mind of the audience.

So, I am trying to address the pros and cons of different approaches to the sucker egg. If you goal is "gag" then there is little difference either way. If your objective is top create a "real experience of magic," then ANY sucker effect has already fumbled the ball. Not being judgmental here. IF Gag is what you want them to remember, then be sure to use every gag, cross-up and "fool you" device possible. There are no "cons" since your objective is not magic.

The problem I see is in mixing such a gag in with other Effects that might have a chance at "must be magic," especially as a finale'. By trying to add further levels of intrigue to sucker Effect can dissipate the power of other Effects.

So, YES to the fake hole if that is you only Effect offered and your objective is 'gotcha," but NO if it is combined with other Effects or if your objective is a Story Told After of defying the impossible.

No, you didn't talk about it as a running gag, and that is not my goal. I tried to explain how I look at when it could be appropriate to reveal the (real) hole in the egg. It was a bit beside my own point of this topic, sorry if that was unclear.

Actually, thinking of it, if having eggs appearing during a show as a running gag (not what I'm going to do) then the silk to egg would be more of a mystery and therefore nothing that should be explained. Using the fake egg in the trick "Sucker silk to egg" (which I am doing) the explanation becomes a means to the end (sucker effect). In my opinion, that is. But now I feel I'm maybe being a bit hard to follow

Now, Funsway, how do you feel about not using the "fake hole" thing in "Sucker silk to egg"?

Hawkan

Thought I answered that in the last two lines above, but here is another thought. Instead of just pulling off the sticker, it becomes a black silk
as if it is being pulled from the egg. Now you have a third mystery that might suggest the sucker part isn't foolish at all.

I have been performing this Professionally in the corporate market for many years and I find during the explanation
showing the silk hanky in the hole inside the egg , this bulge of silk matches my fake hole exactly, I found years ago using stickers etc wasnt nearly as effective as having a fake hole made of the same material, that way the original and final explanations visually look the same hence the strong audience reaction..

I don’t think it has to be presented as a “sucker” effect. I think it is presented as magic. I say “of course getting the silk into the hole is not magic…. But getting the hole of of of the egg”