Hey again
I was wondering if General Grant's dove products were good? Are there any other dove magicians that have dove products out? Whats good about the types of harnesses and whats bad? yeah thanks!

If you're just starting out I recommend what General Grant has to offer. Andy Amyx also has a nice product line out and I highly recommend his dove holders, they're the best as far as I'm concerned. Check it out: http://www.andyamyx.com

Jeff, it's really a matter of personal taste. I like General Grant's harness or bags but prefer Tony Clark's pockets. Peter White at P&A silks makes a very elaborate dove holder and combines several ideas into one.
I agree with Dan that if you're just starting out though, Grant's are nice and very easy to use.

Just save yourself a lot of headaches and go to:

http://www.amosmagic.com

Buy the suit all set up along with the tapes. I wish this was available when I spent over $1000 in books, bags, pockets, etc. to find the correct 'real' productions methods.

In the long run you will be saving money.

I disagree with going out right away and buying Amos's package. You don't want to put the cart before the horse. Yes, he has a good deal if:

1. You have $1000 to spend right up front.

2. You intend to dress in tails and not a tux.

3. You already have your act established and know exactly where you want pockets and how to position them. Every performer is different and has their own special way of positioning pockets.

For someone just starting out, I'd recommend getting tapes from any of the pros, Amos, Tony Clark, Gen Grant for example and studying them for methods and products available.

Here on the East coast, you can get a very good quality tux for $100. For less than $500, you can have the tux, pockets, holders and tapes you want. This worked for me when I was starting out.

Once your act is ready, if you are going to perform professionally, then I'd consider having a tux made to order.

I have everything, pockets, act, all that. I have tails and everything. I was wondering about dove holders?

Jeff, there are probably as many different types of holders as there are pro dove workers. Tihs where a matter of personal preference comes in. The very basic idea is that a holder is a hammock to hold the dove. The difference usually comes in how the hammock is held closed until the desired moment. Some are held with velcro, some with snaps, some with zippers and others are actually loosely sewn. The type you use depends somewhat on the effect being done. Obviously a velcro closure would be difficult if you were performing a one handed production.

General Grants can be opened with one or two hands, the tail of the bird can extend beyond it if you have a larger bird and they are very comfortable for the dove. Tony Clarks require two hands, the entire bird including the tail is enclosed and are also comfortable for the bird.

I use primarily General Grants but that is my preference. They open smoothly for my act.

Thanks Dave. I think I am going to purchase a General Grant's harness, just because of the one handed release. I've tried every way of doing a dove harness- velcro, clips, snaps, I even devised a way to have a harness open up as I pulled it so the dove would be free. I finally gave up on those. I've made like 5 harnesses and came up with 20 differant ways of doing this.
I found one at the shop I work at that had 2 snaps on a solid peice of cardboard that was a one handed release. It was cool til it broke.
I was watching GG's "How to make a living at stealing--- doves of course" and I saw how easy and effective it looks (but I guess its his job to make it look that way). I'm just wondering if I will take it out of the package and be like "this is horrible"?

Jeff, you're right, Gen Grant has been doing this for more years than I can remember but the way you see the dove release is exactly the way it looks when you do it.

The harness you described with the two snaps sounds very similiar to the shimada system except is uses a metal strip not cardboard. There again, personal preference. I used one of shimada's at first and never liked it. Others think it's great.

I use General Grants dove holders all the time and I personally find them to be the most reliable to use.

Jeff,

For what you want, General Grants probably the best answer. Another great one handed harness was put out by Jimmy Ray. If you ask around this board or on others, someone might have a few. These were made in the late seventies through the early eighties.