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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27302 Posts 
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When you get to design a show that has themes and some sort of dramatic arc - already taking Ms. Angelou's advise about pathos... sure - learn from the best about making your shows that sort of memorable.
Peter Brook was discussing theater. And if you have not seen any of Peter Brook's work you have treats waiting. There are clips of his production of Midsummer Night's Dream on youtube to get a taste of what he was doing back in 1970. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdtlsWpeLDM Anyway most in magic are not out doing drama, tragedy ( well not intentionally  ), or multi-character comedy. Though some folks have learned how to use some of the dramatists tools. Richiardi used to close the show with a woman sawn in half on the stage.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21275 Posts
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On May 2, 2024, martydoesmagic wrote: Bingo and 100% my point. I think my issue is where Bob said it was “non consensual”. They both a ticket to a show knowing tricks would be employed. Certainly this is content.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 1704 Posts
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When someone purchases a ticket for a magic show, there is no issue of consent. However, in situations such as a magician performing at a restaurant or charity banquet, magic tricks can be performed without the consent of the audience. The same can occur in social situations where some magicians may force their hobby onto unwilling participants, which is what Bob may be referring to.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21275 Posts
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Ok I have issues with magicians who force people to watch magic in any situation. I see that.
At an event the magician has been hired for it is not so clear and not close to the same thing. This all being said still there is the issue that almost all magic performance requires the bending of the truth. Their perception must be changed if you are going to do an ID. If you don’t fairly shuffle and claim you are then you are altering their perception. Everything you claim to be doing and are not or do and claim you are not alters their perception of what they remember. As I said you don’t get to be just a little bit pregnant. If that is indeed the line is asking for consistency a leap? It seems to be the equivalent of wanting to be a boxer and not wanting to hit anyone in the face. Then making the claim that hitting in the stomach isn’t really violence.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Bob G Inner circle 2858 Posts
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"...social situations where some magicians may force their hobby onto unwilling participants, which is what Bob may be referring to."
I don't consider that unethical, Marty, just rude. How about this: a theater shows a movie without warning potential viewers that it contains rapidly flashing images. By purchasing a ticket, is the viewer consenting to *everything* that might be dished out, including a seizure? I realize that my example, the magician who intensionally reviews incorrectly what has occurred so far in a trick, is mild. But the principle remains. There have to be limits to what we consider spectators to be consenting to, even if they buy a ticket. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21275 Posts
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On May 2, 2024, Bob G wrote: Every one of those signs I have seen SPECIFICALLY mentions seizures. YES by staying they consent to the risk. You say the principal remains, yet the “principal” hasn’t been stated. What little seems to be described is not consistent. I am really curious as to what you are trying to articulate here.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 191 Posts
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On May 2, 2024, Bob G wrote: It sounds like you're giving the magician too much credit for the ability to "control minds." And I think it's quite rare that, in the context of a magic show, a spectator would walk away feeling mentally or emotionally violated in some way. That being said, mentalists who explicitly (or implicitly) purport to have real psychic powers are in a position to emotionally manipulate their audience in a manner that could cause great distress in some participants. That's where the limit is, in my opinion.
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Bob G Inner circle 2858 Posts
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Hi, R. S.
Your phrase "mentally or emotionally violated" is a good way to express what I'm concerned about. I'm very good at making associations, and I think that what struck a nerve with me was that the card strategy in question reminded me of "re-education" camps for the Uyghars and other such atrocities. Needless to say, card tricks are in another category altogether. Thanks for being so helpful in clarifying this discussion. Regards, Bob |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21275 Posts
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How do you propose to do an effect without some kind of memory altering event?
I’m genuinely curious as to how this is possible. Also you give magicians way too much credit for being able to do these things.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Posted: May 2, 2024 05:12 pm 