Would these small brass ring pass for a finger ring.http://www.reefscuba.com/brass_rings.htm

Got one from here a month or so ago but sadly,they have changed their site and I no longer see these. Still easy to find on ebay though. Ring on rope (harness ring, not finger ring) is easily my favorite trick but I find it challenging to keep it pure, short and sweet. I am always tempted to add too many phases. I am curious to know if you still perform this regularly, Motley Mage, and how your routine has evolved since your original post a year and a half ago.

Hi Fritz!

Yes! --Keeping it "short & sweet"!!!

As I mentioned in January (this thread) I started playing with ring & rope in the early '60s. I "blame" my dear old friend, the late Dennis Loomis, who left us two years ago this week, for getting me started with ring & rope.

The late Stewart James, who first published SEFALALJIA in his "spirit cabinet" routine (late '30s, I believe) must also share some of the "blame"!

Denny first showed me Stewart's Sefalaljia with shoelace, safety pin, and ring. I was "hooked"! Next came Jack Chanin's ring on rope (Jack did "it" with a square "ring") Liko Pang was doing the same move almost simultaneously. (probably, "parallel thought") Then Denny passed along the late Walt Rollins "ultra sneaky", and "automatic" five rings off simultaneously!

Then, Clifton, and Grismer (and one more "ring" magician, whose name has momentarily escaped me) got my attention! Now, I was REALLY 'hooked'!

Methods! routines! big rings! small rings! finger rings! "ring things" (Bob King) ETC.!!!

Jay Marshall always said, "When you get the act "set", START EDITING!" And, Jay was right! But, it's not easy!

Fifty years later, and, I'm still "working on it"! (And, I haven't even mentioned ELLIS!!!)

Good luck Fritz!

Hey there--

Vinny, thanks again (as always) for pointing me to great material to consider & work on. Glenn's work is nifty, and I will likely be ordering his Alien Ring DVD as soon as I am back in a buying position. (Right now I have several pieces I am working on, plus my wife has me on re$tricted $hopping $tatu$ for $ome rea$on. B^)

The Fritz, I am really a hobbyist (though I am pretty serious and working toward more public gigs) but when I perform, I do still do ring & rope at every opportunity. I continue to carry it every day, and anytime someone wants to see something (if they haven't seen it before), that's my go-to. I still mostly do an abbreviated two-phase piece of Aldo Colombini's Ringing Around Too, though I am working on two different pop-on, pop-off moves to add. As both you and Dick said, I believe too many moves make the ring & rope overly complicated and "puzzling" in the worst sense. Its simplicity and clarity (a ring goes on a rope impossibly, a ring comes back off equally impossibly) is what makes it so stunning.

Dick, thanks for the references. As if I didn't already have enough to check out! You are one of the most helpful guys on here and I can't wait to buy your book when it is published. I have taken your advice and kept the routine short, to just 4 moves... On, off, on and then a "finale on" which uses (probably) one of the moves Motley Mage mentions from the Aldo Colombini routine where a loop is tied in the rope and the ring links on to it. The finale does have a rationale but the challenge is how to present the whole routine. I am thinking through and editing a presentation that is centered around me getting scammed by a "snake oil" salesman and I demonstrate what he showed me with this ring and rope. I love Pat Page's idea of an invisible hole in the rope, so that is the premise behind what was "shown" to me. I am trying to add some comedy to it with a very tongue-in-cheek approach but I am not sure what will be funny and what won't. It seems every time I perform, I get a laugh at a line that wasn't meant to be funny and certain lines that I was sure would be funny, end up flying by with no laughter. I guess it all evens out in the end but I don't feel like I know how to write comedy very well!

The moves I use are ones I came up with myself, except for the last move that came from Aldo. None of the traditional moves are used but I am positive others have come up with these moves way before I ever did, and I just haven't seen them on videos or in books yet. Guys like Flip and Aldo among many others have been so creative with this type of magic. I just love it so much and like you, Motley Mage, I carry my ring and rope in a little bag in my back pocket everywhere I go.

Hi Fritz...

When I find a few "free" minutes, I'll PM you, or better yet, PM me your email address. It seems that every time I'm half way finished writing anything very long via PM, "it" disappears into cyber space. And, at my age, that can mean a half hour or more of typing has vanished. (As I age, my typing skills are vanishing, too!

I worked with Aldo on a weekend convention evening show in either St. Louis, or Kansas City (I can't remember which!)about 20 years ago. We didn't get an opportunity to discuss ring and rope bits, but, I've heard he had some good stuff.

I'm curious about throwing a ring into a LOOP. Did you intend to write KNOT? (A LOOP is formed when the working end of a rope crosses the standing part. It is the "beginning" of most knots.

I "throw" a LOOP, and simultaneously throw the ring into the loop which causes the loop to become an "overhand knot" with the ring "in" the knot. Then, I pull the ring off, leaving the overhand knot. I open up the knot to about 8" and toss the ring back into the knot. I've never seen anyone else do the first part of the bit. (maybe that's what Aldo does in his routine???)

On things like ring and rope, I made a list of all the possibilities that I could DO. Then, I tried various combinations of, for example, 3 "moves", to see how well they "played" to people. Finally, I selected the bits that played best, and routined them. (I didn't "throw away" the bits that didn't "make it" into the working routine. (I'm a Depression raised kid! (and, also a "disciple" of Jay Marshall!) THROW NOTHING AWAY! because, someday, you may find a use for it!!!

I do a little with a finger ring--nothing really different. Trouble is, the "newest move", I learned in '85. I can't remember which move came from Clifton, from Grismer, or Nelson!!!!They work better with a colorful shoelace.

The "five ring" Walt Rollins Sefalaljia bit above is especially good as a single trick for walkaround. Denny showed it to me almost 50 years ago. I've never seen anyone else do it. Well, I did pass it along to a few friends and THEY do it.

I love ring and rope. I think it's very magical and have written what I think is a fun routine for it.

But for some reason I am a flop with it. All the other magic I perform gets great reactions, but kids don't seem to find this magical. They'll say, you're just tying special knots.

Adults seem... amused, maybe.

I really don't get it. When I first started PRACTICING the moves I found them incredible. It was like I was experiencing the magic as I learned it. And yet it seems people don't find it half as amazing as I do.

Wah



So I never do it.

Thanks, Dick! I will pm you my email address. The loop I mentioned is the beginning of an overhand knot. It isn't tightened, just left with about a 2 1/2 to 3 inch loop. The brass ring I use is either 2 1/2 or 3 inches depending on the audience. Sometimes I use a 4 inch ring as well but not often. For this move, the ring isn't tossed. It is pulled through the loop. Aldo does it on Ringing Around Too. He has a dvd on it but it is also on The Essential Aldo Colombini set from L&L. That is where I first saw it. The variation I do comes from Apocalypse volume 13, no. 6 (page 1792 in the yellow bound volume).

Your move sounds awesome. It is definitely more than what Aldo does. Maybe they have similar mechanics.

I have had similar experiences in the past, Theodore. That is what keeps me working on it!

Oops... I meant your move sounds "AWESOME"

Theodore...Sometimes it's a matter of putting the props on the shelf for awhile, and letting the routine "pickle". I've noticed over the years when I was developing material, that I was, sometimes, "too close" to the problem! (Subjectivity vs Objectivity!) Perhaps a month or more later, I would pick up the prop(s) and try again. --and, "it" worked! When this happened, I would think, "Why didn't I think of this, before?"

(Nemo judex in causa sua--No one is a judge in his own case) Just talking about it with another magician (here, for example)can give you a fresh viewpoint.

Or, seeing someone else performing a similar trick or routine, may stimulate your thinking. or give you a fresh viewpoint about such things as timing when you do a "move", or deliver the punch line of a gag.

One of the major problems that the "average" magician has, is that he doesn't have a director! In the theater, there is always a director, whose objective viewpoint and technical knowledge, can help the actor to deliver the "line" more effectively. Some of us were fortunate enough to have a qualified mentor, who, at times, was also a director.

Remember the old dealer ads!? "Fool your friends! Works itself! No practice needed!" HA!

I was extremely fortunate, as a youth to meet some successful professional magicians who could (via the US Mail, in many cases!)helped with the technical points (e.g.: sleights)and an agent who changed my thinking regarding presentation, with one question:; "Can you make 'em laugh?"

I had been (at 19!!!) trying to be suave and debonair! I was doing a "look at how cleverly I can do these things" act.) I could do white glove card fan productions, the Downs p*lm (with both hands) and the multiplying balls that made the magicians in Ring 103, sigh! I even had white tie and tails!

The agent gave me a "try out" date. I did OK. But, he asked, "Can you make 'em laugh?" I said, "I think so." He said, "Make "em laugh, and I'll get you work." I did, and he did.

As always, it's not the prop, or the routine, it's the presentation! (and, presentation is more than just the physical performance, and the lines we deliver!) Remember the old advice? "It's not WHAT you do, it's HOW you do it.

For years, I've opened with the color changing silk (dye tube). I had the sleights and the timing down 100%, The kids liked it. BUT, I could not find the right line to close it and get the APPLAUSE, I got applause, but, not APPLAUSE! One day, on a jump to the next town, I had a "stupid stroke of genius". I tried a different line, that, I had suddenly thought of. "Instant" (?) success! I got a big laugh, AND, APPLAUSE! That line sets the tone for the whole show. Don't give up!

Alright!

My post knee surgery reply may have been a little brief.

Let's try, "Alright, I won't give up, and thanks for your advice!"

Thanks again Dick!

Yer most welcome!

"Verb. sap. sat." >>> Don't plan on going square dancing for a few weeks!

Do any of you have a preference for your rings and ropes?

I was using the colored plastic rings and colored ropes that came with the sets I ordered from Colombini Magic, but then I switched to a 5" metal linking ring and plain white rope. I thought these might look more "normal." Maybe I'm overthinking it?

Years ago I used a silk scarf tied in loop by a spectator as the "ring"

This worked so well I used a long chain instead of a rope.

Somehow, the stories I told became more meaningful or enchanting.

Well I definitely have my excitement back for ring and rope! Thanks to Dick's advice and a little creative thinking I've combined rope through neck with a short ring and rope routine that finishes with a CnR rope.

I'm such a dunderhead for never thinking of combining these before! Maybe I couldn't see the forest for all the ropes. What a great way to combine tricks into a flowing, fun routine.

It's the opportunity to talk with my friends here at the Café that make me so thankful for it as a resource. I'm always learning something from the more experienced magi.

I can't wait for my next hospital visit to try this out!

Theodore-

I visited the children's hospital today and did my 5 phase ring and rope routine sans the rope through neck and the CnR rope; those parts aren't quite ready yet.

But the ring and rope went great! Thanks for all the help Dick!

Huzzah! Sometimes we have so many tools we don't know what to build with them.