On 2003-12-23 02:04, cfrye wrote:
The situation as I see it is that if you trade or even give away your VHS copy of the material then you have unfairly profited from another person's intellectual property without compensation. If you were to donate your only copy of a tape, it would be OK because you would no longer have the use of the material (equivalent to giving away a car). However, by copying to DVD and therefore retaining the use of the material, you benefit from the material while passing the same material to someone else who either didn't pay for it or paid you for material to which you don't own the rights.

In a nutshell: if you keep a copy of the material on DVD and then give away the VHS copies without the permission of the copyright holder, you have violated their rights. I almost said "stolen," but it's obvious you want to do the ethical thing in this situation.

What I recommend is that you contact the copyright holders directly and ask their permission to donate the tapes to a magic library. If they choose not to grant that permission, you should either keep the tapes or destroy them.

On 2005-12-29 23:47, Howard Coberly Irvine,California wrote:...I'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree with the on-going argument in the magic community that once a person pays for a trick, video, etc., in good faith, he is being unethical or breaking some copyright law by re-selling the items or givng them away....

On 2005-12-30 02:50, Bill Palmer wrote:
Gee, Howard Cobberly Irvine, California, I think you are missing the whole point.

Let's take your used car analogy. There is nothing wrong with selling your car to someone else. But once you have sold it, you have forfeited the right to go over to that car and drive it off without his permission. It's not yours. You don't own it any more.

Many of us do learn from material other people show us. But I'm one of those guys who hardly ever throws anything away or sells it. Sometimes I give things to the club -- not VHS tapes, unless I have legal DVD's of them. Giving a tape you make a copy of to your magic club is like photocopying all of your lecture notes and then giving the originals to the club.

But there is nothing at all wrong, immoral, illegal or unethical about giving a book, DVD, prop or anything else to someone else as a gift, unless it is specifically prohibited in the original purchase agreement.

You can't give away a Fitch-Kohler holdout, legally, unless you are Bob Fitch or Bob Kohler. They own every one of them manufactured. Everyone else leases it.

Let's face it most of us know when what we are doing is wrong. The rest don't care or they haven't been informed. The ones who do care will stop. The ones who don't will continue to manufacture crappy magical apparatus.

Under section 117, you or someone you authorize may make a copy of an original computer program if:

• the new copy is being made for archival (i.e., backup) purposes only;
  
• you are the legal owner of the copy; and
  
• any copy made for archival purposes is either destroyed, or transferred with the original copy, once the original copy is sold, given away, or otherwise transferred.

You are not permitted under section 117 to make a backup copy of other material on a computer's hard drive, such as other copyrighted works that have been downloaded (e.g., music, films).

On 2005-12-31 16:48, Bill Hallahan wrote:...you authorize may make a copy of an original computer program ...

On 2004-02-07 18:58, Peter Marucci wrote:
Kevin writes (and his point is argued by others): "So unless it concerns the welfare of the nation or a significantly large amount of money, respect for intellectual property is not an issue?"

So what would you do -- close all the libraries for the very same violations?

Please join the REAL world!

In a "perfect world", this would not be an issue.

But, then, in a "perfect world", poverty, hunger, and terrorism wouldn't be issues, either.

On 2005-12-31 14:36, Howard Coberly wrote:

Quote:

On 2005-12-30 02:50, Bill Palmer wrote:
Gee, Howard Cobberly Irvine, California, I think you are missing the whole point.

Let's take your used car analogy. There is nothing wrong with selling your car to someone else. But once you have sold it, you have forfeited the right to go over to that car and drive it off without his permission. It's not yours. You don't own it any more.

Many of us do learn from material other people show us. But I'm one of those guys who hardly ever throws anything away or sells it. Sometimes I give things to the club -- not VHS tapes, unless I have legal DVD's of them. Giving a tape you make a copy of to your magic club is like photocopying all of your lecture notes and then giving the originals to the club.

But there is nothing at all wrong, immoral, illegal or unethical about giving a book, DVD, prop or anything else to someone else as a gift, unless it is specifically prohibited in the original purchase agreement.

You can't give away a Fitch-Kohler holdout, legally, unless you are Bob Fitch or Bob Kohler. They own every one of them manufactured. Everyone else leases it.

Let's face it most of us know when what we are doing is wrong. The rest don't care or they haven't been informed. The ones who do care will stop. The ones who don't will continue to manufacture crappy magical apparatus.

Actually, the car analogy is completely valid in the context in which I made it.

The analogy had to do with the mistaken belief that it is unethical to resell something that one has purchased in good faith because it is taking money out of the pockets of the originator of the item. It had nothing to do with selling something and then going and trying to use the item again. Re-using the item after selling it has nothing to do with the context in which I made the car analogy.


Posted: Dec 31, 2005 2:57pm
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By the way, Bill, I've noticed a hint of condescension in your replies to those who don't agree with you. It's really not necessary and it automatically weakens any argument you try to make. And besides, you spelled my name wrong.