Hi there,

I do not visit here often on this part of the forum, but I do enjoy the reads and the expertise of many here. So here is my question...

I was recently able to pick up an Owens' Kuma Tube copper vase, it is in excellent condition, no bumps or bruises, or
scratches. It has the Owen sticker inside, and the copper ring around one side.

From where I sit at my table I can see my reflection in it and the reflection of the room BUT it is not REAL shiney. It is an older piece and has a nice patina to it (but not a green tarnish).

So two questions.

1) Do you think I should try to have it repolished? I do not plan to have tubes made that look "Vegas", but more oriental ie. perhaps dark red, and dark green tubes with gold lettering. They are for use on stage. I love some of the delicate oriental designs I have seen here and on Norm N.s site but I think they are too "fine" and detailed for my purposes.

2) IF I repolished would that effect the value to a collector of this piece in the future??

For those that have asked, I am planning to try and make the tubes from the Sono tubes available in the reno stores or I may go and have some rolled steel ones made, whichever route I choose I may do two sets so that I could have two different looks.

Anyway your opinions are appreciated (and valued) on the subject.

Any tips on the tubes that can be added would also be appreciated. (P.S. I have read most/all of the threads on using the cardboard tubes here.)

Many thanks.

Blair

If the vase is too shiny it might reflect light and someone sitting at a low or high angle could see it.

If the tubes are usable then leave them alone -if- you ever want to sell this piece later.

I have Owens' copper Rice Bowls, I was surprised that after removing the lacquer that to do some work on the inside, it was not necessary to re-polish them, I even tried and they did not get any shinier. So my advice is to not have them polished with any kind of abrasive, like the rouges, just use Brasso to polish the copper vase. Then if you want to make it permanent, just use Krylon Clear Plastic paint product. Put on a lazy susan and spin or rotate as you spray the vase. I done that to my Martin Don Alan Brass Bowl Routine bowl and it is still like when I polished it over 20 years ago. If you don't like it, ordinary paint remover takes it off quickly.

The tubes you can most likely have formed at a drum store. We have a local place that makes custom drums and they can roll most anything. The lip is another story, I have not suggestions for that.

Blair,

A couple of thoughts here...

If the vase is all that exists from this set, the only real collector value (as if it was an original set) would be to someone who owns only the tubes. I don't believe polishing would affect the value. However, as Jay said, polishing might have a downside as he described.

Polishing it might also suggest time placement, i.e., making it appear newer. If you wanted to pass this off as an antique, polishing it would flatten the credibility. That all depends on the presentation you have in mind.

As far as the design on the tubes, the kind of detailed work that I do and what Norm Nielsen does would be appropriate on a piece that is more stationary than not. In this trick, the tubes are in motion... a lot. (I always think of De Yip Loo when I think of this trick!) A more basic graphic design would be better with whatever design or image being easily identified before the action of performing renders the graphics completely unrecognizable. You could use either stencils or decals.

The concrete forming tubes can certainly work and will not beat up your vase like metal tubes might, although you can line the tubes to reduce that risk. As long as you can figure out how to add that lip, you'll be good to go.

~michael

Edit: I just saw Bill's post. Drum store is a great idea!

Thanks guys, I had hoped you would be the ones that would have chimed in. (Yaaaaaa!!!)

I don't mind it looking dated. I have 2 - 6' Dragon Silks and a great streamer to produce from it. I may also make a stand like Johnny Platt used and will decorate the tray accordingly. I have been going through my Albo set to find a suitable design for the table.

The tubes and vase will be used right after another silk production with a 6' butterfly, and before an oriental Costume Trunk girl production. This all goes with my 46' Lotus flower scrim arch.

So plans are moving ahead.

Thanks again!

Blair

Jay, one of the sets I have seen actually had a cover for the inner tube which I thought was a nice touch, both practical and decorative.

B

Oh, and maybe my original was not clear, I purchased JUST the vase (that was all that was offered), knowing I would have to have the tubes made, or make them myself.

I did check out the cement tubes to see if it was practical for me to try. And I though it would be a fun winter project.

B

I would possibly strip the lacquer off the vase. Then I would buff it to mid shine not mirror finish. If you do not reseal it, it will tarnish. If you seal it and it gets scratched, it will tarnish. Answer..Rub tung oil into the surface. It will block the oxygen from hitting the barss.
I would never make the tubes out of metal. I would use the plastic sheeting..Sintra. I comes in various colors and thicknesses. You can glue it up into a tube. Sonco tubes are going to be heavy.


Richard

If you have the Albo Okito VHS tapes or DVDs, you can see a table designed for this trick.

Richard,

When I went looking for the tubes I don't believe I found the type of tubes for forming cement pylons that we have discussed here before. The ones I found were VERY thin walled ie. about an 1/8", very inexpensive, and they come in 8'lengths (so far as what I have found). I was actually concerned about them being too thin. I believe they are a new product which does not require the overly thick wall to give strength and to support the cement.

RE: the lip - I have been thinking of a couple of ways to resolve this and none really require the bending of metal etc. As the small tube only rests on the vase for a moment, and you never really show the inside of the smaller tube without motion being invloved, a wooden ring, or perhaps plastic ring would fit the bill. Painted black, or covered with felt (to protect the vase) that lip would be just screwed into place, and it would blend into the sides of the tube when it would be shown. If the tube is snug enough we are only talking of a lip between 1/4" and 1/2".

Blair

Michael - I have both the Okito tapes, and the Thayer DVD's, I have also researched the Albo books, and Okito's Quality Magic (different name for the tubes her and a VERY interesting gimmicked lip). When you say "The table" are you referring to the table used for additional productions, or the Johnny Platt style table/stand?

B

I was referring to the table/stand that hides the vase initially (tray on top).

You really don't need a lip. I think you can just use your fingers. Watch De Yip Louie in action.

The table (as Owens make it now) really adds a lot to the load. I made two 22' wide by 60' streamers to fit in one for Jody Baron.

Richard

Richard,

The routine calls for using both, you sit the tube over the vase with the lip showing it won't fit down over the vase, then you reverse the tube and show it doesn't fit that way either (using your fingers). You could do it using fingers only, but resting the tube on the vase by itself sells the second part.

B

I understand what you are saying.

Richard

The vase, sitting on the tube by itself, is usually the last "bit". It leaves them spectators with the impression the entire effect was impossible because you are hands-off at that time..

TUBES I have sheet metal, rollers, spot welders & I just bought a powder coating gun and oven.

We can paint the tubes - these are 19 inches tall http://www.thehouseofenchantment.com/pag......mbo.html

Or YOU can possibly paint the tubes. But first I would go to a local sheet metal shop and see what they can do and insist you want a perfect job on the diameter of the tops and bottoms.

Based on all the input here it is not likely that I will have the vase repolished now. I think it looks more authentic the way it is.

Thanks all.

Blair