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maharajademagia Regular user 127 Posts 
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Lawrence O, is the book called, La Magie de salon par l'adresse manuelle: le close-up and was it published in 1989 with 256 pages? If this is the book I shall try and get this book. Quote:
We have all seen these links before and commented on them, so there is nothing new you are bringing here. Take it from and Indian, they are real Indian magicians. BUT leaving aside the first one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZMKTgTiYaU&feature=related Others are not doing the academic version of Hindu Cups and Balls which Gary is talking about. Even on YouTube in case of Shafath you will see my comments defending him. He is doing the traditional version but for me has spent little time with is sleights and has posted his video a bit too soon. Gary has taken away his video on the Tube so you cannot compare. And Gary does not claim to be the best source of Indian Magic but the best prepared to explain the Hindu Cups and Balls as it was done in its full version. |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts
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Hello Maharajademagia
Yes this is the book by Jack Karlow that I was referring to. Thank you for graciously explaining what Gary considers contributing and how it is different: this is all I asked
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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maharajademagia Regular user 127 Posts
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On 2012-10-09 03:49, Lawrence O wrote: Thanks. Is there any place you know in France where this book is being sold? Your input would be very helpful. |
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Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts
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Friends, how did we get from:
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On 2012-10-03 13:26, Gary Kosnitzky wrote: To: Quote:
Now, since my thread has been hijacked by trolls I am ending my participation in it. I just don't understand why it's necessary to .piss Gary off, when he is trying to be of help here. What gives him the right? WE DO! I WANT to know more about the Hindu Cups & Balls! Any info he has is welcome! This huffy-puffy, attitude stuff needs to stop. I do understand the need to keep this stuff secret. Otherwise the Masked Moron will have a field day with it! And, the other bottom-feeding, knuckle-headed Neanderthals on YouTube as well! I am astounded at the question, "What gives Gary the right..."! Maybe English is not Cirrus' first language, and he does not understand the insult. And Lawrence O, there must be some past history here. I really see no connection between what Gary is doing and Lawrence O's comments. Well, now, guys...he's gone. Thoroughly disgusted, he threw up his hands and left. Nice. Is this what the Magic Café is becoming?? A guy comes in with an idea, and it's shot to hell by a few...eh, let's say "discontented folk". Just my $.02 Doug |
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maharajademagia Regular user 127 Posts
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On 2012-10-13 15:27, Dougini wrote: Hope he comes back. Or at least I would miss him. And Mr. Laurance would not even answer my question. |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts
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On 2012-10-13 15:27, Dougini wrote: I have no past history with Gary, whom I don't know. If you read his first post he is starting this thread by stating "Frankly I am disgusted watching the nimrods online exposing magic. I am disgusted by the counterfeiters who have absolutely no consciences and are only out to make a buck. In fact I am starting to get disgusted by most magicians in general. I have met very few who have any ethics." Since he didn't explain (at least not in this thread) what he is contributing that would be new and, on the contrary leads us to believe that he has simply collected other works doing exactly what he condemn ethically by saying "I have spent many dollars and many years of my life devoted to this one trick". Therefore I asked him not to be judgemental if he was doing exactly what he blames others for doing and, to give him a chance to justify his rude aggressivity, requested him to explain what was new in his intended publication. If he is p***ed off and left, it means that he didn't have much to bring and caught his own feet in his own carpet. Then there is nothing to regret with his departure. If he really has something special to bring (which some of the people knowing him seem to believe) then he should swallow his pride, apologize to the café for his arrogance in his introductory post in this thread, explain why what he has would be a contribution adding to existing printed works and that's it I'm not intimidated by Gary's insults or tantrums and harsh attitudes. Such behavior is generally denoting people facing their own guilt. Now if I've been misled by Gary's rude words, I will have no problem to recognize it. In this thread,sofar, I'm the only one who, at Maharajademagia's request, graciously and spontaneously contributed some unknown work on the Hindu Cups to the community (a work that even Gary, in his vast knowledge from spent dollars had not heard about). Gary just offered insults in an arrogant way. If this is all he could offer, farewell!
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts
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In order to check if I hadn't been unfair to an arrogant magician that would really have something to bring and to try and find a way to be fair, I went back to earlier posts by Gary.
On Dec 1st 2011, Gary wrote in a thread "I was originally going to write a 'Primer'. It only would have only contained the basic moves and a short routine. Later I was going to offer 2 more books, each with a more advanced and longer routine. Now I have decided to put everything I have learned all in one book. It will teach you about the cups, how to make your own balls, correct posture, clothing, all about the additional accessories you will be using plus include a step by step explanation of 3 very exciting traditional routines. Most importantly, I also include all the patter in it's original Southern Dravidian language with English translation. There are many stunning moves only used in the Hindu Cups and Balls and nowhere else. There will be extremely detailed explanations of all these moves accompanied with many photos. Be patient. I promise this will be worth waiting for." Gary had thus explained that he would share with us how to make the proper Hindu Cups, the way they were done from the origins, but we had heard from Maharajademagia that Indian cups were originally coconuts with a rope glued on top for easier grip (for coconuts had a religious meaning in some Indian temples). Then Maharajademagia had explained to Bill Palmer that Indians used elephant bells. These are not exactly the same size as the Hindu cups that Gary is referring to when he claim to teach the exact size of the cups enabling the moves specific to the Hindu cups (that he is selling without instructions) Indeed we all know that "There are many stunning moves only used in the Hindu Cups and Balls and nowhere else" but Gary didn't claim to have found any forgotten move. He clearly admitted that he would "include a step by step explanation of 3 very exciting traditional routines" admitting openly that he would do what he is condemning at the beginning of the present thread. So we are not missing any routine or move with his departure draped in pride and vindication. Gary only claimed one new thing "Most importantly, I also include all the patter in it's original Southern Dravidian language with English translation." Now admittedly this would be interesting but doesn't justify his arrogant insults on other people rip offs (and I never wrote a line on the Hindu Cups and therefore have nothing to protect) So for you guys who got impressed by arrogant claims and a noisy retreat, you haven't lost much and, if this patter in its original Southern Dravidian language exist, I'll find someone to translate it for you and publish it for free in the Secret Sessions (in less than a year)
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts
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One more Hindu cups routine:
Joe Berg : The Chinese Cups and Balls © 1928 Princess Magic Shop (not ot be confused with Joe Berg's double load cups and balls routine)
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts
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Thank you Etienne, for the explanation. I see your point. And Gary's post:
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"Frankly I am disgusted watching the nimrods online exposing magic. I am disgusted by the counterfeiters who have absolutely no consciences and are only out to make a buck. In fact I am starting to get disgusted by most magicians in general. I have met very few who have any ethics." I understand his disgust! Although I don't know of any magicians personally who have no ethics, I share his sentiment about the exposers and counterfeiters. Still, I am interested in hearing more. Frankly, I'm disgusted at the way some members here treat each other. Aside from the forementioned, I have been appalled at what is allowed here in the Café today. Some threads make a flame-war look like a sputtering candle! I was even told that they hope I get over my unresolved sensitivity issues! OK, no flames here. I see your point. But I also see Gary's. Let's hope this all calms down, and Gary finds it in his heart to try this again. I dislike conflict. I avoid it whenever I can. Life's too short... Doug |
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Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts
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On 2012-09-26 10:57, Gary Kosnitzky wrote: That statement bothers me. That says more than the entire thread! Some serious reflection is in order here. One has to ask oneself, "Why am I doing Magic? What is my goal here?" The answer to that may make it easier to find a path. It is not "magicians" that disgust me. It's people who cannot talk with a polite tone, even if they disagree! People who find it amusing to upset other people. People who cannot get through a thread without hurling insults. I'm 57, and feel this world is fast descending into a cacaphony of rudeness. "Polite" is NOT "in". "Rude" is a way of life for some. I don't like getting upset. It takes days to get over it. So, I avoid situations like that. Just my additonal $.02 Doug |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts
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For those interested in more than the three routines mentioned by Gary, here is a short (naturally incomplete) Bibliography on the subject.
Joe Berg: The Chinese Cups and Balls © 1928 Princess Magic Shop Pete Biro: The Indian Cups and Balls © 2008 Pete Biro Steve Dacri: Indian Cups and Balls; The Magic of Steve Dacri - No Filler! Vol 2 DVD © L&L Publishing Les Greenhalgh: Indian Cups and Balls Routine Swami Issue 31 © 1974 Sam Dalal and © 1997 Richard Kaufman Edwin Hotz: The East Indian Cups and Balls The Sphinx Vol 38 N° 3 © May 1939 P. K. Ilango: Indian Cups and Balls © 1983 Supreme Know How Series Eddie Joseph: Sleights, Moves and Subterfuges – series by Eddie Joseph - The Hindu Cups; Max Andrews’ Magic Magazine: Vol 3 N° 11 © Feb 1955 p 294 & Magic and mysteries of India © 1962 Abbott's Magic Manufacturing Co Jack Karlow: La Magie de salon par l'adresse manuelle : le close-up © 1989 J. Karlow 10, rue Commandant-Mages, 13001 Marseille (France) Solyl Kundu: Indian Cups and Balls, Nu Style My Kind of Magic © 2007 p 26 Shankar Junior The Complete Cups and Balls © 1998 Michael Ammar and L&L Publishing; p. 120 the Indian cups and balls Ellis Stanyon: Original Lessons in Magic: The Indian Cups; Magic Magazine Vol X © Ellis Stanyon
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts
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Thank you Etienne! Some great sources there!
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts
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Just found another one and not an uninteresting one
Theo. Bamberg (Okito): Cups and Balls - Indian Conjuring The Sphinx Vol 24 N° 7 p 209
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts
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Major L. H. Branson: Indian Conjuring
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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DrVG Loyal user 273 Posts
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On Oct 27, 2012, Lawrence O wrote: thanks, any of those cover the foot work ? |
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Harry Murphy Inner circle Maryland 5446 Posts
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The only one I know of that covers foot work is Gary's. I think he actually published it before he passed away. It is in digital format and is included with the set of coconut cups he had built and was selling. Penquin sells the set including the PDF book.
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
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DrVG Loyal user 273 Posts
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On Sep 22, 2023, Harry Murphy wrote: thanks, got it and indeed it does. still open for more recommendations in the litterature (foot wise). |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27302 Posts
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We don’t often perform at ground level…
However, the basic notion does travel vertically. Consider the Miller holdout and Keplinger device as specific to cards. Then look at the shoulder bag as servante with and without that mechanical assist available when sitting on the floor. A squeeze bulb on the strap… or these days something electronic can help you keep your shoes on. IIRC Tom Stone published some ideas along these lines.
nuff said?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27302 Posts
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On Sep 26, 2012, Gary Kosnitzky wrote: Just a few suggestions: Select your students. They have to be comfortable sitting on the ground and performing magic for people that way. You'll probably attract the storytellers / bizzarists who already know how to set up the space and invite folks in. Tour the magic convention scene - show but don't explain the item. Just a few passes to demonstrate the basic effect. Offer lessons - and make the basic props part of the lesson. Don't teach the *****k to folks who have yet to master the basic bag and prop logistics. Set up the teaching in stages - with followups for students as they learn the basics. Beginners learn a basic pass and load. Intermediate students learn a routine using the bag. Those who get that far can learn the "unusual" method(s).
Don't let students rush into a nice method before they can use the wand and cups effectively.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Posted: Oct 9, 2012 12:14 am 