I personally do not remember any "messages" a Christian magician ever said . . . I was too much into the magic, and the message was pretty basic. I think "preaching" is much more effective when the preacher is not a "Prop Preacher". Being a "Prop Preacher" /Magician just does not sit well with me. Maybe because preaching becomes a show. Can they mix? Sure, but rarely well in my experience. The number one reason kids do not want to go to religious events, IMHO, is because they are not fun. Ask kids who do not attend . . .I did. "Christians aren't any fun" is a phrase I heard a lot. By trying to jam Gospel down their throat every minute is not the best way to attract kids. Showing it can be fun to be a Christian, that is another thing.

I have to agree with you, and what you have said. Magic is supposed to be fun, it's entertainment. If we are properly teaching and discipling our children and youth about Christ, then I don't think there is any need to have to teach them through entertainment to help them better understand the message. I say entertain children when the time is appropriate, but remember to teach and disciple them in the ways of our Lord.

To those who still believe that magic helps makes the message more understanding, or more clearer, please reconsider that, and realize that nothing we do changes lives, nothing we say changes lives. God changes lives, and He alone gets all glory, not our magic shows. We are just vessels, and even when we are not where God wants us, He still uses us for His will. Not for our magic show, or to get more bookings, but for God's will, and His will only.

(Barnes' Notes on the Bible)
Let all things be done decently and in order - Let all things be done in an "appropriate" and "becoming" manner; "decorously," as becomes the worship of God. Let all be done in "order, regularly;" without confusion, discord, tumult. The word used here (κατὰ τάξιν kata taxin) is properly a military term, and denotes the order and regularity with which an army is drawn up. This is a general rule, which was to guide them. It was simple, and easily applied. There might be a thousand questions started about the modes and forms of worship, and the customs in the churches, and much difficulty might occur in many of these questions; but here was a simple and plain rule, which might be easily applied. Their good sense would tell them what became the worship of God; and their pious feelings would restrain them from excesses and disorders. This rule is still applicable, and is safe in guiding us in many things in regard to the worship of God. There are many things which cannot be subjected to "rule," or exactly prescribed; there are many things which may and must be left to pious feeling, to good sense, and to the views of Christians themselves, about what will promote their edification and the conversion of sinners. The rule in such questions is plain. Let all be done "decorously," as becomes the worship of the great and holy God; let all be without confusion, noise, and disorder.

I personally believe that magic is nothing more than a skill or talent we have aquired by practicing and studying. It is not a gift from God, nor do I believe it makes understanding the bible easier. Like all thing, we should use our talents and skills to worship God. I believe if we focus on doing just that one thing with our talents and skills, we will remain focused on God's will, and not our own, and everything else will fall into place according to God's plan.

KC,

Thanks for chiming in. Your thoughts are basically how I feel. It seems to me that magic/entertainment should be separate from the message as intertwining the 2 during the show will cause both to be less.

If your magic was that strong the audience will be entertained they won't be in the mood or right frame of mind to listen to a gospel presentation. They're wondering how you did the magic.

If anyone has examples of people intertwining the 2 well I'd like to know but I just have not found any.

MT- I did an outdoor "Celebration of Freedom" festival this weekend in Parchment, Michigan, with several well known musicians including pianist Christopher Milo (check him out on youtube- just amazing) and singer/composer Jean Watson (www.JeanWatson.com). The event ran for 12 hours, with us having total "liberty" to do "Gospel Magic" or Gospel music. I did a bunch of effects where the Gospel and magic intertwine very nicely- inluding Laflin's "What Color Is Your Bible?" and Joe Eddy Fairchild's "Saviour" large stage spelling effect. So if one has the freedom and has been asked specifically to do "Gospel magic" as I was over the weekend (even in this large band shell setting), the two (the Message and the magic) can go together. The "Bible Blabbers" Puppet (8 person) Team was also part of the festival, they too did a great job as well using puppets and Christian children's music.

Reading some of these posts almost begs the question, "Why put ANY patter to a magic trick" (That's a rhetorical, I say, RHETORICAL question, son! ~ Foghorn Leghorn). It's being suggested that the audience won't remember what you say, only the magic. If this is so, why not do all magic to music or in silence? But we do use patter to get from point A to point B. Most consider the patter to be as important, or more so, than the trick. After all, anyone can do a trick, few can make that trick entertaining.

It's also being suggested that the magic will override any message put to the trick which makes the message weaker, the trick weaker, or both. To this I say, several magicians make a tidy sum of money combining message & magic for product launches, seminars and motivational speaking. Still others are successfully theming educational shows for schools and libraries. And guess what ...they are also highly entertaining while doing it.

Big business pays big $$ in researching how to present information in a way that aids the retention of that information. Engaging the audience with entertainment is one of those ways, but only if they are combined, not separated.

So, please don't tell me or others that an entertaining, Biblically themed show** can't be done. It takes work, originality, personality and creative thinking. If you don't want to do it, fine, but stop justifying your choice by proclaiming that it can't be done.

(**please note - a themed show, Biblical or not, does not imply that every trick/routine conveys the message. there's more to theming than that, much more. a themed show, done successfully, will help the audience remember the talking points while also remembering they were entertained at the same time.)

It has me asking a couple of questions. Does patter enhance the magic, or does the magic enhance the patter?

Well I don't think they can be mutually exclusive. For a lot of tricks, doing them in silence would be weird and unnatural. But reciting patter without a trick is kind of silly.

The sum is greater….

I don't want this to come off as bragging, but I want to illustrate a point from someone who has done this full time. I've been performing Gospel magic for 32 years, before going back to pastoring, I was on the road 8 years doing it full time, working 30 to 40 weeks a year. I still do my Kid'z Fests, but I'm limited in how much I can travel now since I'm a pastor.

I take Sam's approach, I've always bought professional equipment to use, not the "Gospel magic" stuff. The Lord even gave me an idea for a television program for children. I created the spots consisted of a series of one minute messages, I performed magic and conveyed a message in just that one minute time frame. Here's a link if you wish to see them... http://totalfamily.net/media.html

I've been blessed to have them air in 170 countries and on two major Christian Television networks.

I've received great feedback from Professional magicians like Cody Fisher, Justin Willman, John Archer and others on the content and presentation...

So you can blend the two together effectively. You have to work on balance and content and it helps when you allow the Lord to give you the ideas.

Terry, I'm...blown away by those 12 vids! I became a Christian in 1977. I've performed in churches, but left the preaching to the pastors! I did not feel qualified to "preach the gospel" using magic. I did however do a few demonstrations, for example the 18" color changing silk from black to white. That showed the kids a sort of "visual" version of what they had just been told (by a member of the church who spoke before my show).

That's as far as the "Gospel" magic went. There are magicians MUCH more qualified than I, that CAN and DO give an AWESOME testimony using magic. YES! God bless any who CAN! Terry is a prime example! Here is a guy who is 100% dedicated to his ministry, and magic is secondary.

And, I wanted to mention...please do NOT compare yourself to Eugene Burger! He is a rare and unique individual, and only HE can perform his stuff the way he does. I've seen magicians try to imitate him, and it falls FLAT! His passion and dramatic presentation are unique to HIM.

Walt Anthony is another magician who can present an effect with passion and emotion without looking hokey! If I tried that, I'd be laughed off the stage! Gospel Magic should be given that special place in magic reserved for only those who can pull it off. Just my opinion...

Now this:


Joe, I don't think people realize the impact of the truth here. Angels. If you only knew...

I will say this just this once: There are beings here on Earth that are NOT human, walk among us undetected, and are doing God's work right now. I know this for a FACT! I will not explain it, as it's too fantastic, and really most would not believe it, and I'd be labelled a nut-case. Worse than I am already, that is! LOL!

There are things going on right now in the United States, that if you knew...my gosh. I'm not sure our society would not fold like the Haunted Dollar Bill! Just the Dulce Base in N.M. alone...I've said too much...

Anyway, Terry, you have shown a perfect example of the way fine Gospel Magic should be done. Not all of us can do it, and we SHOULDN'T! The Good News is too important! Let the guys who CAN do it, do it, and the rest of us just happily perform the way we do!

And entertain those Angels!

Doug

Thank you Doug...I'm truly humbled