Thanks for your support Richard.

Waiting please . . .!!

Hi,

Just my thoughts. Hope I do not offend anyone unknowingly, but I would like to be direct and straight to the point.

I read and acknowledge all the points substantiating the (high) prices of the Elite Line. I understand and appreciate that a lot of work and effort has been put in to try to make this work. I understand and appreciate high tooling and moulding costs for making die-cast metal parts.

Having said all that,I believe the prices are considered high and may be a mental hurdle for many who is considering getting it.

For a trick like the moonspinner / fortune sticks to be priced at US$100, I do not dare to think how much would an Elite item of greater complexity and intricate gimmicks eg. Eye of the Idol(if realized) would actually costs. US$300? More?

Whether or not these retail prices can be sustained in the long run, I suppose it remains to be seen. Already, a recently closed auction of an elite moonspinner went for around 50% (?) of its retail price?

One of the "laments" of the original tenyo line is that the props are too tiny and only suitable for close up. However, no one complains too much because the original tenyo line is priced reasonably for a trick of that size.

I would pay US$100 for an Elite Moonspinner, but perhaps only if it is a "2-UP" version or something bigger. At least to me, apart from material difference, you are perceived to be getting more value for something of a different scale from the original.

I hope to see that the project works out for the guys involved and hope it is viable. However, I do have my reservations and concerns.

I don't think $100 is unreasonable for a precision machined metal version of a great effect. No one questions spending $100 for a shell machined by Lassen, a coin rattle by Porper, or a set of bone handled Mogar knives. I don't see how these are any different when you consider the quality and durability of the Elite line.

I would like to know if there is a limit on production and what that number is. The prices are not inexpensive, but quality combined with low numbers might prove to be important in the years to come.

I expect that as time goes by these Elite Tenyo items will hold their value and more, but it will take 10 to 15 years before collectors realize it. By then the price will be steep. This will be especially true for the first 4 items produced.

Only time will tell, but if history is any indicator just take the old plastic Tenyo items which now fetch big dollars on the collector market.

I would consider these tenyo items as those that require precision construction:

Magic China Box
Eye of the Idol
Mini Morphosis
Crystal Pyramid

to name a few...

My Opinion? Moonspinner and Fortune sticks - these are tricks that are essential self-working. Strictly speaking, I would not classify them as items that requires strict tolerances or precision engineering as compared to those mentioned.

Would be interesting to know the price point of the Blue Crystal.

guerrestellari said; "Whether or not these retail prices can be sustained in the long run, I suppose it remains to be seen. Already, a recently closed auction of an elite moonspinner went for around 50% (?) of its retail price?"

That's very possible. However, your assumption that a premium priced item selling at auction for a lesser amount implies the item does not have the preceived value is certainly faulty logic on your part. There could be a variety of reasons the item did not fetch a higher price, especially if it was for sale on an auction site like Ebay.

I've seen sports cars in mint condition that were worth almost a million dollars sell for a hundred thousand dollars - that does not mean the car isn't worth a million bucks. My brother in law sells antiques at auctions every week. Just recently an old bottle sold for five dollars and two months later the exact same bottle brought over a thousand dollars thru the same auction site. It is all about when the auction takes place, who happens to look at the auction, etc. Nothing more.

guerrestellari said; "My Opinion? Moonspinner and Fortune sticks - these are tricks that are essential self-working. Strictly speaking, I would not classify them as items that requires strict tolerances or precision engineering as compared to those mentioned"

Not to sound rude sir, but anything made worth its weight in salt is manufactured with strict tolerances and precision engineering - unless of course quality is something you don't care about.

That said, I'll leave this debate by saying you'll either purchase these items and understand you are receiving high quality or you won't. There are a slew of plastic magic tricks available for you to purchase from various dealers and these include the original Tenyo line.

Thanks so much for your thoughts on the matter.

I strongly suspect that when the Tenyo Elite items show up in actual brick Magic shops and people feel them in their hands that they will sell out very quickly.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your post. My comments was in fact, a direct response to a post by Tdowell:

"I don't think $100 is unreasonable for a precision machined metal version of a great effect"

To which, I commented:

"My Opinion? Moonspinner and Fortune sticks - these are tricks that are essential self-working. Strictly speaking, I would not classify them as items that requires strict tolerances or precision engineering as compared to those mentioned"

Those mentioned being:

Magic China Box
Eye of the Idol
Mini Morphosis
Crystal Pyramid

So COMPARATIVELY, moonspinner and Fortune Sticks would require less strict tolerances and precision engineering, since there are no moving parts nor are they assembled from individual parts/pieces.

I think that is still a fair statement

Oh, one more thing to add, I do care about quality.

I agree that anything that is good quality comes with a price. It is up to the consumer to satisfy himself whether the price is reasonable and acceptable.

From the numerous posts from users here, it appears that the majority is satisfied with the Tenyo Elite Pricing. That is encouraging.

As for me, I have offered my personal opinion that if the elite line is made different in scale to the original whenever applicable and logical (For eg. I am sure we would all yearn for a bigger-scale crystal cleaver), then I certainly would not hesitate to pay a premium for it.

And no Steve, you do not sound rude. No offence taken

As for the original Tenyo's "slew of plastic magic tricks " - in your own words, let me remind all that they happened to be priced very reasonably at average 1000yen to 1500yen retail price during launch.

So at that price, I am satisfied, as with many others, with the (reasonable)quality provided. I will NEVER hesitate to get them.