The Magic Cafe Forums - The problem with Betchas

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Good to here.

NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts	Posted: Feb 19, 2007 06:05 am 0 The problem with betchas is that everyone focuses on how to WIN the bet and not on how to convince some to take the bet. If I said "I can tie this cigarette in a knot without breaking it", few people would take the bet. It sounds SO impossible that no one would take the bet. Why would I offer the stake if I couldn't do it! So the smart hustler needs to encourage his suckers to feel like THEY made the bet. He needs to introduce the idea in a roundabout way. Introduce The Concept Introduce the idea of the concept without offering an opinion. e.g. "Do you think it's possible to tie this cigarette in the knot?" "I once met a guy who could tie a cigarette in a knot." "How far do you think you can bend a cigarette until it breaks? Discuss The Concept Once the discussion starts, listen to the speaker and wait for him to make a definitive statement such as "it can't be done" or "that's impossible." Create A Sense Of Opposition At this point you need to argue with him in a non committal way. Make him strengthen his point of view without setting yours in concrete. If you sound too sure of your self, he may back down. "I reckon I could do it." "I don't know that your right..." "It must be possible.." He will see this as a sign of your weakness and start to argue further. "Your dreaming! There is no way!" Make sure that he feels as if HE is controlling the conversation. Make The Bet This is the moment that you go in for the kill. "How much are you willing to bet that it can't be done" (notice I didn't say that I could it, just that it could be done. This removes me from the challenge and makes the bet seem more objective) Shame Him Into Taking The Bet If he backs down or refuses the bet, shame him into betting. Make him feel like an idiot or a flip flopper for suddenly backing down. "So you don't want to put your money where you mouth is." "I'm not sure I can do it but at least I'm willing to have a bet!" The Cool Off Bend the cigarette into a knot and collect up. Make him feel good for losing. "Wow! To be honest I'm a little drunk! I didn't think I could do it!" "What are the chances of that! You were unlucky!" This way...you can hit him again!
MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts	Posted: Feb 19, 2007 06:07 am 0 You are alright fella!
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts	Posted: Feb 19, 2007 06:11 am 0 Now if only I could tie a cigarette in a knot. I'm sure it's possible. Perhaps a small wager might get me thinking.... any taker? :)
MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts	Posted: Feb 19, 2007 06:34 am 0 I can do it! I spent my younger days performing evil acts to make money in bars. I admit it....
ViciousCycle Loyal user 210 Posts	Posted: Feb 19, 2007 01:19 pm 0 Quote: On 2007-02-19 01:05, Nicholas J. Johnson wrote: So the smart hustler needs to encourage his suckers to feel like THEY made the bet. Yes. Of course, a smart hustler needs to encourage his suckers to think that THEY will be outsmarting HIM. Consider this hold ustle: (1) The hustler is showing a really stupid card trick where he bets money that a certain card will be the next card to be turned over. No one takes him on his bet. (2) While he has to turn his attention away from the deck for a moment, someone messes with his deck of cards, removing the card about to be turned over next. (3) When the hustler turns his attention back to the deck, everyone suddenly wants to bet. (4) The next card is turned over, and it is the card the hustler claimed it would be. Of course, the person in step 2 is really an accomplice helping the hustler when he appears to be scamming the hustler. Refer to the book "How to Cheat at Everything" for a detailed description of this scam.
thoughtsexplorer Elite user Elite... not D-Lite! 424 Posts	Posted: Feb 19, 2007 01:39 pm 0 Quote: On 2007-02-19 01:11, Nicholas J. Johnson wrote: Now if only I could tie a cigarette in a knot. I'm sure it's possible. Perhaps a small wager might get me thinking.... any taker? :) ...only when you won't use the cellophane wrapper from the cigarette box or something similar...
R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 192 Posts	Posted: Feb 19, 2007 11:24 pm 0 Good post, Nicholas! Ron "It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts	Posted: Feb 20, 2007 12:31 am 0 Thanks Ron ViciousCycle - The Three Card Monte is the ultimate betcha in my opinion. You may also enjoy the works of the School For Scoundrels.
chappers New user 30 Posts	Posted: Feb 21, 2007 12:22 pm 0 Some really nice tips there Nicholas Cheers
acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts	Posted: May 21, 2007 12:39 am 0 Bet you cannot find the shell with the pea under it................. If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Pavloter Special user 529 Posts	Posted: May 21, 2007 07:54 am 0 Quote: On 2007-02-19 01:05, Nicholas J. Johnson wrote: The problem with betchas is that everyone focuses on how to WIN the bet and not on how to convince some to take the bet. If I said "I can tie this cigarette in a knot without breaking it", few people would take the bet. It sounds SO impossible that no one would take the bet. Why would I offer the stake if I couldn't do it! So the smart hustler needs to encourage his suckers to feel like THEY made the bet. He needs to introduce the idea in a roundabout way. Introduce The Concept Introduce the idea of the concept without offering an opinion. e.g. "Do you think it's possible to tie this cigarette in the knot?" "I once met a guy who could tie a cigarette in a knot." "How far do you think you can bend a cigarette until it breaks? Discuss The Concept Once the discussion starts, listen to the speaker and wait for him to make a definitive statement such as "it can't be done" or "that's impossible." Create A Sense Of Opposition At this point you need to argue with him in a non committal way. Make him strengthen his point of view without setting yours in concrete. If you sound too sure of your self, he may back down. "I reckon I could do it." "I don't know that your right..." "It must be possible.." He will see this as a sign of your weakness and start to argue further. "Your dreaming! There is no way!" Make sure that he feels as if HE is controlling the conversation. Make The Bet This is the moment that you go in for the kill. "How much are you willing to bet that it can't be done" (notice I didn't say that I could it, just that it could be done. This removes me from the challenge and makes the bet seem more objective) Shame Him Into Taking The Bet If he backs down or refuses the bet, shame him into betting. Make him feel like an idiot or a flip flopper for suddenly backing down. "So you don't want to put your money where you mouth is." "I'm not sure I can do it but at least I'm willing to have a bet!" The Cool Off Bend the cigarette into a knot and collect up. Make him feel good for losing. "Wow! To be honest I'm a little drunk! I didn't think I could do it!" "What are the chances of that! You were unlucky!" This way...you can hit him again! I mean this is main problem. I don't include 3cm or 3sg because they are totally different, and will work on any sucker. But then there such are struggle of introducing a concept, without pulling up a red flag. What might work is if you with friend, and apparently you both argue if it is possible, and then you just ask a sucker about his opinion. I mean money part is most of the time is the hardest, to get a drink is easy and straight forward. Now I know women got a lot of advantage in betting, but then you can do nothing about it, unless your friend who is one or you are women. Then in a bet sucker will bet against her, in that way they will be more soft, there will be less heat in a way. But on rest I agree with Nicholas, well done on making this topic, as it is proper problem for most of us. Please don't think it will work as smooth as in Real Hustle, because they cut out times it didn't work, and then you don't really know is there actually camera man stands next to them, then people become more polite and tend to listen. Pavlo
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts	Posted: May 28, 2007 05:01 am 0 There is also the suggestion that the real hustle faked some of their scams! (not sure if it is true). The idea of tow people arguing a point is used to fine effect in the Delilah Scam which you can find at the Encyclopedia of Scams. Follow the link below then look for the Delilah Scam in the list of scams. Don't use the search facility. It is broken.
airship Inner circle In my day, I have driven 1594 Posts	Posted: May 29, 2007 08:31 pm 0 I usually just bet for a nickel. I always get takers, but they're always more interested in what weird thing I'm going to pull in order to win the bet rather than winning. It's only a nickel. This gives a betcha more of the flavor of a magic trick. 'The central secret of conjuring is a manipulation of interest.' - Henry Hay
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts	Posted: Jun 12, 2007 07:35 am 0 It was suggested to me that many people pay up on the betchas despite knowing they will lose just to learn the secret!
Mr.Crebar Loyal user 231 Posts	Posted: Sep 5, 2007 04:28 am 0 Well said, the secret to a good bet is to convincer. This could also be said about Fast and Loose, 3 card monte, and the shell game.
NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts	Posted: Sep 5, 2007 06:28 am 0 "In every bet there is a fool and thief"
scaevola Loyal user 251 Posts	Posted: Oct 8, 2007 02:09 am 0 Wow great post. Thanks for the ideas.
impossible man Elite user 403 Posts	Posted: Oct 22, 2007 05:57 pm 0 Thanks for the great psychology lesson. Dean Gilbert Impossible Man www.impossibleman.net
iambest New user 61 Posts	Posted: Apr 10, 2008 09:35 pm 0 Simon Lovell's Cheat at everything, great source for a lot of betchas! Includes buildup lessons and everything =)
Pauldela Special user U.K 882 Posts	Posted: Jun 11, 2008 11:26 pm 0 Good tips.