While cleaning my coins today I noticed that the 1971 Mexican 20 centavo that came with my Tango CSB set is different from the one in my Johnson S&S set. Both were supposedly minted in 1971, yet in the Tango set the eagle faces right and in the Johnson set the eagle faces left. The writing is also in two different styles, and the colour of the metal is not the same. One coin is even very slightly thicker than the other.

It doesn't take a lot of thinking to reach the conclusion that one coin is an impostor.

The fact that one is fake - and illegal? - doesn't affect the trick, but it is a bit annoying as I was trying to clean them all to combine both sets.

Have a look on ebay or via http://www.google.com to see the coins outside of magic context.

:)

Are they both from Mexico? I belive "centavos" are currency in other Spanish speaking nations as well.

I did check Google. No 1971 coin images, but the eagle faces the Johnson way in all the coins I see.

Both of my 20 centavo pieces say "Estados Unidos Mexicanos" on them. One side, let's call it heads, is identical in both coins, showing a Mexican pyramid. The difference is that the edges of the mountains behind the pyramid fade out in the Tango version before touching the decorated outer circle. I have just noticed that the beading effect around this circle also fades out in one spot, so I assume it's from a mould. The tails side shows an eagle which is stylistically different to the Johnson coin and to all those I can find on internet. Perhaps that was done for some legal reason, as if to prove there was no intention to counterfeit.

I won't stop using the CSB for a reason like this, but I will never buy anything more complex than a magnetic euro from Tango again, and may this post serve as a warning to anyone else planning to go with this set.

Of course, if there is another explanation, I'll gladly apologise and retract my criticism.

Well as someone who lives on the border, the 20 centavos now are small silver coins, but as I recall, I got a bunch of 20 centavos coins back some years ago when I was making jewelry as a hobby, I gold plated them and made bracelets and necklaces with them. And I remember eagles point in more than one direction on those as well and wondering why. Money making in Mexico isn't as centralized as it is here in the states.

Hi Photius,

Well, if that's the case then I do apologise to Tango. It's odd how coins minted the same year should have such different characteristics (colour, design, quality and thickness), but I guess if that's the way it is, then I'll have to accept it.

A new Google search has produced only images of 20 centavo pieces with the Johnson design (eagle facing left, etc), however, and not that of Tango.

http://search.express.ebay.com/Coins_Wor......mp;_nd1=

So I'm still confused.

To the best of my knowledge, having compared many coins (I have dozens of 20 Centavos coins), on a genuine Mexican 20 Centavos coin the eagle faces left. I understand there were artificial 20 Centavos coins made by/for one of the manufacturers, Sterling I think, which actually did not say "Centavos" at all. On those bogus coins, in the normal location of the word "Centavos", was the word "Copia", which translates to English as "Copy". These "Copia" coins are also a bit thinner than a genuine Mexican 20 Centavos coin.

You can look up Scotch and Soda on eBay and often see photos in the ads. Many of those, particularly from the cheaper sets, will show the eagle side of the coin with the bird facing right. In fact I've seen people try to pass off non-Johnson Scotch and Soda sets as Johnson's, and the bogus 20 Centavos coin was the give-away. Also, I can't recall which, but some of the magic dealers who sell individual replacement coins have actually listed a "Copia" coin. If you're ordering replacements, make sure you're getting what you really need.

There is also a different sort of relief on the real 20 Centavos coins newer than 1971 (I think). Rather than a full relief image, there is more of a line drawing relief picture of the eagle. And previous to about 1960 (or so), the eagle image was somewhat smaller than what we usually see on our magic coins. Most of the real 20 Centavos coins used for our trick coins seem to be from the mid 1960's. But even among those real ones with the same eagle image, there are slight variations in the composition of the bronze alloy, making some tarnish quite differently than others.

If it's important that your real and gaffed 20 Centavos coins match (I do, but we all know what sort of controversy can brew from that discussion), there's another good reason for buying Scotch and Soda, CSB, etc., only from Johnson's or some of the custom makers. And double check exactly what you're buying when looking for extra or matching replacements.

Greg

Hi Greg,

Now that makes sense!

Many thanks,

Chris

I remember hearing something about this years ago, Stan Cohen told me over the counter at Al's Magic Shop that 20 Centavos had become scarce, so some of the coin gaff manufacturers were resorting to using replicas, but I'm pretty sure the replicas, at least at that time, had to actually say "replica" or "copy" or some such thing.
I do know you can still find them at coin dealers in ther 25 cent bargain boxes, but the condition is liable to vary quite a bit.

Well the Tango one doesn't say it's a replica...

Yea, I'm afraid I don't know much more than that, I have noticed the same thing Greg mentioned, that the depth of the relief varies a lot over the years, as well as the simple fact copper is a soft metal, and tends to wear and deform a lot with handling.
My Scotch and Soda is a good match for my C-S-B, probably because I have for years tried to stick with Johnson coin gaffs for standard stuff. I have also found a few straight 20 centavos at coin shops that are a good match, especially after letting them tarnish to a dark, dirty brown.
That point about variation in the depth of the relief applies even to Kennedy Half dollars, if you happen to have a 1996 Kennedy, compare it to, say, a 1972, especially the tail sides. They are remarkably different, the 1996 being much shallower. I happened to notice because I have a "tails" expanded shell that is a good match for a 1996 Kennedy, but a poor match for any of my 1970s coins.