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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts 
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Let's make this short and easy.....you've stolen the effect......you don't own it.
Just because you know how it's done, doesn't make it yours. Get it now? |
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APC Inner circle Los Angeles 1219 Posts
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If I know how something works from a demo, should I post asking if anyone will tell me how to make the necessary gimmicks?...i do not think so.
Maybe its just me... |
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-01-29 17:20, Joey Stalin wrote: If you admit to stealing something in public, people are going to bring you up on it. If you had not mentioned it, you would have gotten away with it. But the result would have been the same, few people would have given you the info Quote:
If I figure something out in a demo, sure I'll use it. Hell, I knew how Stebler's The Opener was done the first time I saw it. And I have improoved on the method for it. But there are even more effects fellow magicians have taught me. Which I believe is how things use to be done, before greed came into play. Hell he gave me an old version of colour monte, I never payed for that. He gave me an old version of twisted sisters, I never payed for that either. Nor have I payed for my NFW, he gave me my first set of that. And there are lots more effects he has taught me. Sarcasm?!?! As an argument?!?! What's the deal with that? If you make up a trick without paying for it, it is stealing. Quote:
I love the hypocrisy here. There is not one of you here that haven't gotten a "freebie" from a friend/magician. And I get the third degree for being open about it. "But mum....everyone else is doing it...why can't i!" "If everyone else jumped off a cliff would you..." Quote:
I would buy it if it was convenient to me. But seeing how the nearest magic shop is over 125 km away, as the crow flies, I won't. Not to mention all the US magic sites, I am Canadian, so that is a rip off as well. Not to mention shipping of the effect if it come from an internet site from the US or Canada. I live 400km from the shop I bought In A Flash from. You arguments consist of 1) I'm too far away from a magic shop to be honest 2) I've done the wrong thing before so I can do it again 3) Other people do the wrong thing so I can it to. 4) Sarcasm. It all make sense! You must have 12! |
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Joey Stalin Inner circle Canada 1072 Posts
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And yes if everyone else jumped off of a cliff I would do it as well. It wouldn't be fun being the only person left alive on the planet, duh... And yes, others have done wrong by ripping people's hard work off and selling it as their own. It is called competition. **** look at all the versions of the Hummer Card being sold under other names. You never lay some speach about morals onto them when you see it in shops. Even if this concept was stealing, that may be true by your morals and ethics, but not in the laws eyes. If that were true then wikipedia wouldn't have all the exposure it does. You may see ethical and moral dilemmas in this; however, I do not. So your preaching is futile. You call it stealing, I call it creativity. You all clearly see a problem with this, I don't. Welcome to reality.
-A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.
-It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. -The secret impresses no one. The trick you use it for is everything. See you space cowboy... |
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-01-29 21:04, Joey Stalin wrote: You've created nothing, you're not creative, it's stealing, and you're the person stealing it. |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts
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Joey: After your current posts, how many knowledgeable Magicians do you think will be willing to share their secrets with you? Your attitude will keep you forever out of the loop.
Everyone else: Joey doesn't't get it. Nothing you say will turn him around. He will never get it. Pass the word. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Slim Price Inner circle 1935 - 2006 1326 Posts
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sanscan@tds.net
"I will never bitter be, as long as I can laugh at me!" "The people who were dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music" |
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bekralik Inner circle Canada 1365 Posts
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I'll bet those people bought the original version of Hummer Card first. It's hard to improve or change something if you don't know everything about it from the creator's mind and the experience of their trial, error and development.
Anyway, no need to get sidetracked. More out of curiosity, hypothetical example, if you were in a store and you knew no one was watching you, would you shoplift? I'm just trying to see where you draw the line with ethics and morals. You must have some. Maybe working back from that line would help you understand things from our perspective. |
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Munseys_Magic Special user 520 Posts
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Joey,
Are you still looking for help on making the gimmick? If so, I have a great source for you. Check with this guy named Jay Sankey. He's REAL GOOD at making "In a Flash" decks. Best of luck! |
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Joey Stalin Inner circle Canada 1072 Posts
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Geez, you guys are like the RIAA of the magic world...
-A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.
-It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. -The secret impresses no one. The trick you use it for is everything. See you space cowboy... |
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts
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Your ethics are simply contrary to most magicians in general, and most on the Café.
Nobody here will convince you that you're wrong. |
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gman Special user Lancaster, pa 751 Posts
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Let me see if I get this right...
I am not allowed to use an effect because I didn't pay for it. Is that correct? In other words if I go to the library and borrow a book on magic (basically I don't own the book)and I see an effect in it I can't use it because I didn'b buy the book. If a friend and fellow magician shows me an effect then proceeds to tell me how to do that effect I cannot use it because I didn't buy the affect? Or if I am at a magic club and someone performs an effect then teaches it secret we cannot use it because I didn't buy it? Then should we not close all the libraries because they have books they are lending to people who want to learn magic and should we not arrest the people borrowing the books and videos from the libraries because they didn't buy them. Should we not close all the magic clubs because they reveal secrets to effects that are sold in magic shops and maybe we should even poke out the eyes of the magicians or would be magicians who are there to learn the secrets. Maybe we should even arrest the inventors who really use other peopels methods to create a new effect because they didn't buy the rightrs to use say a double life or another method in their effect. Maybe we should even cut off the hands of all those magicians still alive from the past that show others how to do magic. But then again if we did all that who would create, who would perform, and who would teach magic? While there are some who feel what Joey did was stealing -- remember someone showed him the secret. So I ask you who is really at fault? I'll end this by saying that he who has never learned a trick, effect, or an illusion for free throw the first stone. But remember those of us who live in glass houses may get those stones thrown back their way someday. Juat my opinion. |
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts
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The last time I checked Jay Sankey WASN"T the library, and wasn't offering his effects for free to anybody.
Jay Sankey OWNS the trick in question.......GET IT......it belongs to JAY. If you want to own it too, you have to BUY it from Jay........it's NOT in the public domain. Finding out how it works and then going out and making your own without buying one first is STEALING THE TRICK FROM JAY. All the guy has to do is go out and BUY the trick, it's really not that big of a deal. Stealing is stealing folks......changing the name to feel better about yourself and what you've done doesn't change the fact that you've stolen something from Jay Sankey. |
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gman Special user Lancaster, pa 751 Posts
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Perhaps I didn't make my view clearly...let me try again.
I was being over dramatic about the way the thread was going. I have been taught many effects that I didn't buy at first. For example Chronolog. Great effect. But by what others are say because I didn't buy the effect or the dvd first I should not have used it. I did and then later purchased the dvd for some presentation style of the originator and I am glad I did. The point was who was really at fault. I do not believe that there was any real stealing here. I believe that if Joey did learn the secret to the effect then decided to reproduce the cards for resale then yes he is stealing. Just like those who took the Humming Bird Effect aka Helicoptor effect and is now selling that effect to others. I'm sure you do own the material that you use in your own effect but how would you feel if someone was to come up to you and say produce your license that allows you to use ______ (fill in the blank) and we'll allow you to use it otherwise you must remove it from the effect. That is how some of the people here feel that we should have to have our receipts and proof of purchase to show in order to perform or to get help with an effect. |
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Partizan Inner circle London UK 1682 Posts
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I wonder what that effect was that Jay does with the invisible deck where he puts "X's" on them.
Oh that's right, so now you go out and buy Jay's special pre X'd 808's or do you alter the ID you have? Jay shows magic with coins. YOU don't HAVE TOO OWN JAY'S COINS BEFORE YOU CAN DO THE TRICK! So must I sign up too Jay's 'Airtight' group and receive my badge before I can buy some balloons and do the trick? Do I need Darwin to bless my TT before a cig vanish? Rollox and piffle to your misplaced morals. The guy wants too cut holes, not join your merry band. What next? Make him UNLEARN what he has seen!
"You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
- Mark Twain |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts
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I feel that there is a difference between utilizing PUBLISHED material and currently MARKETED items.
Once something is published, it is out there for anyone to read and learn, from a book they bought, borrowed or read in the public library. If a prop or effect is marketed on its own, and it is the exclusive creation of the person who is marketing it, then it is only right to purchase that effect if you wish to perform it. Some will show their respect for Magic and for those who create Magical ideas and for Magic Shops, and will do the right thing. Others (as we see above) feel a sense of entitlement to take whatever they want, supporting no one but themselves, showing no respect for anyone (including, it seems, themselves). Those who do the stealing, re-verse engineering, ripping-off, are usually those who scream the loudest when someone points out that such behaviour is just plain wrong. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-01-31 11:11, Partizan wrote: My morals are not in question.....I don't steal anything from anybody....if I want something I go out and buy it. I'm just fine thanks. |
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Slim Price Inner circle 1935 - 2006 1326 Posts
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I told the kid about a TOOL!
Should the next step for magicians be to ban all tools? Slim
sanscan@tds.net
"I will never bitter be, as long as I can laugh at me!" "The people who were dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music" |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts
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Sanscan: In answer to your above post...
Of course, it's a ridiculous question to ask if we should ban all tools. Let me ask you an equally ridiculous question: If someone asked you where to buy a hunting knife because they wanted to rob someone, would you tell them? After all, a knife is just a tool... - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Partizan Inner circle London UK 1682 Posts
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The guy is already making the gimmick. What is your point entity?
Some of these guys are on break from harassing card splitters. You would not believe the amount of emails USPCC gets from good citizens reporting card splitters.
"You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
- Mark Twain |
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Posted: Jan 29, 2006 11:44 pm 
