I would like to know if anyone has had experience exposing Cold calling techniques to their congregations as a way to challenge false prophets and such. It seems a very justified exposure topic. With all the materials out on the market, which have you experienced to be most advantageous. Thanks for your help!

Danny Korem has a book called the Fakers. It details an account where he debunked a psychic who demonstrated his powers on the "That's Incredible" Television show. Danny even made a television special detailing how he exposed the psychic. It was narrated by Jack Palance. You might be able to get a video copy of his special. I don't know where to aquire it though, Sorry.

I hope this helps.

Does not the workman deserve his pay?

Are you ok with yourself after harming others?

Psychics are like everyone else, some good and some evil. If you look at how most bill themselves, it will be reader and advisor. If they read your problem (maybe you tell them?) and give you advice, they have earned their compensation, period.

Do not harm another by revealing the secrets of their trade. If you hire a handyman, do you expect him to tell you the secret of the compound cut with a skill saw, or post it on the web, so no handyman can ever do that cut again?

As for re-assuring your flock, tell them you have personally investigated the situation and in just about every single case, there is a logical earthly answer for these things they do not understand. And it would not be right to harm the individuals right to work, just to satisfy their idle curiosity.
Also tell them if they feel very strongly they should PRAY for those persons and their customers to be enlightened.

The business of the church is to spread the Word. God will take care of his own things and in his own time.

God does not have issue with each and every one of these folks, neither should your group.

What did Solomon do before battle? Did God hold it against him or the fortune teller?

If I have offended anyone, or you just want to blast me on this rambling, PM me and let me know your position. Maybe I have both barrels coming. Don't waste posting space on blasting me here though.

Mike

A Seer or Psychic or Reader or Advisor is not quite the same as a handyman. In fact they are no more like a handyman than the Witch of Endor was a window cleaner.

They either are set to deceive for reward, or they do possess spirit powers for sale.

In either case, Christians have no business fooling around with it. And exposure of this deception and the dangers of it are justified, I believe are even demanded of Christian Leaders.

BroDavid

BroDavid. How do you arrive at the conclusion that Christians have no business fooling around with psychics? I can't see the connection in your post.

It seems to me that those who seek out psychics either do it out of entertainment or for advice. How does this conflict with Christianity?

What are the dangers of it also? Getting false information? Doesn't everyone receive information everyday that is reported or relayed to us from other people? Who's to say what is true or false?

Your rationale seems to be that it's okay to expose that which can be misunderstood. Doesn't this include all of magic? Just because you don't understand something or the way it works doesn't mean it is evil. That is an all too common stance in todays society. We could all benefit from some tolerance.

In fact, I'm just remembering a post that I think you wrote where you approached some other church officals with the idea of using magic at a church function and they shunned you. Would you have liked their next sermon to be on the deception, exposure, and evil nature of magic? Surely not.

The only case where I could see exposure as a good thing is if someone was using their "powers" to knowingly harm someone. And in that case it should be exposure of that persons motives and not their methods.

This is a pretty long winded post, but I see so many people with attitudes like this and it makes me ashamed of being a Christian. Christ taught understanding and compassion. Let's take his lead.

Andy

And the Bible warns against Spirit Talk.

Now, at the risk of this turning purely theological which would not be appropriate in this forum, I will make a few comments and end.

Magic that moves into that realm of the Psychic and supernatural is not Christian. And Christians should avoid it.

Andy, in the example you gave, the Pastor could have done what you suggested. But he would have have no Biblical basis for it. He had an erroneous preconception that Illusion is Majik. It is not, But spirit talk and Ouija boards and readers are just that; They are real or deceived versions of spirit talk. However, that Pulpit belongs to him, and He has to answer to God for the use of it, so I respect his decision.

In the previous post, I used the example of the Witch of Endor intentionally. Do you know what happened to King Saul, Samuel 1:18 I think, when he turned his Back on God's counsel to seek the wisdom of a Witch?

Horoscopes, Ouija boards, Reader, Advisors and Physics all fit into the same category. You may find them amusing, but they are contrary to Biblical Christian Teaching.

You speak of Christ's Compassion, and He knocked over the tables of the Money Changers. Was that compassionate? No it was exposing the wrong, and destroying the means to carry it out.

I, like you, often find myself saying; they say they are Christians, but what are they thinking? But it usually relates to this kind of stuff, or other "feel good" stuff like sexual issues.

Our society of tolerance would tell you that if it doesn't hurt someone, it isn't bad. But that is a lie. You don't know if/how it is hurting people. But most Christian Churches, have people fooling around with this stuff, saying it is just entertainiment, and conditioning themselves to put their trust somewhere other than in God. Do a Bible Study, see for yourself!

How many Wiccan Priests, or other Witch's do you know. I know quite a few. Many were Christian, or thought they were, and because of this nonsense and the lack of a discerning spirit, they have become what they are; Demon Possessed and Spirit controlled.

We can probably go on a long time talking about relative good, etc. But I trust in absolutes; the Bible.

This is a Magic forum, even though it relates to Gospel Magic, so let's talk magic here. We can always carry on the theological discussions in private email.

BroDavid

My position remains the same.

Love your neighbor as yourself.
Do not harm others.
Do not expose your church to evil in order to make your point.
If you feel these persons are at risk or in trouble Pray for them.
You are not God's sword, either am I or anyone else, and until your prayers are successful, don't take away their right as an American, to earn an income in any way that is legal.
For the cons taking old folk's savings, shame on them and they need to go to jail.

Like I said PM me.

I definitely am interested in hearing everyones opinion, if I agree or not, I hold your opinions and ideas in great respect, but this is a magic forum and maybe this topic should go under "It's not magic but.." as it is still a service to the Christian sector of magic and possibly should be continued.

(you have some good points Bro David)

While some good points have been made here, I agree that the best way to handle this topic is privately. I will leave the topic here rather than delete it so that folks can see the opposing views and privately contact those who posted for further discussion.