I am inconsistant with one of the moves for the ring and string. Let me describe the move, and if anyone wants to throw me their tips, I'll appreciate it.

THE MOVE: Ring is threaded and held loose in the left fist (ready to drop)(the ends of the strings are hanging out of the fist. Your right hand comes up to gather the strings and passes the left fist and the transfer is made.
The move reminds ME of two other moves that I've known for years. (Vernon's wand spin/vanish of a small object and "an amazing coin vanish" in Tarbel 7 by Roth) Both require a fist and the right hand passing by to caught the object.

But the ring sometimes doesn't fall out of the hand as smoothly as I'd like. The left hand can get just "moist" enough (because of a closed fist) to get in the way of a clean drop. By the way, it's the first move in Diamond Jim Tyler's ring and string routine. Also, I know that my wedding band isn't really what Jim suggests to use. He suggested a heavy ring like a guy's graduation ring.

So to make a long story short (which is impossible at this point) - I guess my question to everyone is: ANY SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO GET A CLEAN "DROP" EVERYTIME?

Follow up: The more I think about it, a heavier ring will probably have to be the solution. It's just that, I'd like to be able to do this with ANY ring the spectator gives me. Jim suggests to use your own (heavy) ring if no guy in the audience has a (heavy) ring.

But like I said, if anyone has any suggestions on the move, please help. My (light) wedding ring in always on my finger and too tempting to "practice" with during spare time each day. I guess I'm just complaining "out loud" to everyone - sorry!

With the lace ends hanging, I start the wrapping from the pinky side where I do the first drop. The next drop is when I wrap from the thumb side.
My hands are briefly against each other when I do the drops. I do it slow.
Most rings should work OK.

Jaz,
I don't suppose you could shoot over a quick video clip of what you just described? I'm at jmmadm@msn.com

Sorry but no camera.
I'll PM you.

Let me send you a quick clip of the move so you can see if I'm doing anything wrong. Send me an e-mail at jmmadm@msn.com so I can reply with the clip - Is that OK?

Thanks Jaz

Are you refering to the "Clifton Ring Move?"

If so, PM me...

I guess it's the clifton ring move. I just got back from the golf course, tried it for a golf buddy, (in the evening sunset - so the ring would "flash" at any unforgiving second), and I couldn't do it without "flashing" even ONE TIME. I've never had more trouble with a move ever in my life. Do you want me to shoot this over to you conus? I'll PM you with my e-mail address and you can tell me what the heck I'm doing wrong. jmmadm@msn.com
Send me a request and I'll send you the *&%@ way I do the move and you can tell me how I'm doing this so WRONG!!!

Jaz: Thanks for the PM. Your description told me I was doing the move slightly wrong. I was, in error, bringing my R. Hand in from underneath the L. Hand (WRONG!). After your PM, I did it with R. Hand coming in from over the L. Hand. Duh! This provides natural cover and is completely natural.

The reason I had to post this question is...before I realized I had a problem with the sleight, I left "pocket full of miracles" in a friends car. I haven't been able to re-read Diamond Jim's explanation all week, so thanks for the help.

Hi Jonathan I never like the clifton move myself because the string got tangled at times
,however flip on his latest dvd
says the same thing . He teaches the way he learned it,the move is increditable and it appears your hand never leaves the string. While at the same time the ring is stolen.. this is not flips move it might be in tarbell..
pm me and ill make a demo and send it to you
make sure you send me your e mail address
vinny

Vinny, the Clifton move is never done well by anybody, so I neither even bothered to learn it.
Wrapping the string around ones hand also seemed always to me to be incredible strange and unnatural.

I have however to state, that I did se one single performer do it well so it was deceptive, and that was Daryl.

Others might well also be able to do it well, I've just not seen them, but I've seen far too many who did it badly.

My firm opinion still is NOT to use it at all, it's hard to do it deceptive!, it's that simple!....

Anybody ever having seen Fred Kaps doing Bruno's ring move will agree, re what to use.
Also, the one Earl Nelson does descsribe in his ageold book, that recently got a reprint with further additions, is oustanding and deceptive, but in this case one has to thread the ring oneselfes.

I do know however quite some performers who did the Jim Ryan thing ( Ring/wand/rope), as well as the Collectors Workshop Dagger routine by use of the Nelson move and TBH, I did it myself years and enjoyed it, the reason I don't use it currently simply is I don't do any routine 'needing' that move, but it can of course stand for itself as a 'ring off rope/string' move..

Re the combination with Jim Ryans routine, one simply does tie a knot 'over' the ring -using also the Scotty York display ruse/sublety- and does the steal during a guesture, instructing the specs how to hold the wand.

There is only one way of learning such things. You have to keep trying until you find the method that works best for you.

That's what makes the difference between a good magician and a bad one. Endless taking other people's advise, looking for vid clips and books is the road to nowhere.

Just sit down with the props and mirror and work it out for yourself.

You are correct, at the end, to do as you advice, yes..

BUT, reinventing the wheel doesn't lead to anything.

So a good way still is to study what's alreday worked out/invented and then try what one oneselfes finds doable and practical, what flows in ones own hands..

It will never be wrong to look around what's 'ready' and done by working performers.
This not necessarily will fit ones own style, but it is a shortcut to not spend time on stuff that doesn't flow in ones own handling..

Study as much as possible, play with what one likes and what one thinks is practical and then play with that solution and adapt, alter it to your own handling style, type of performance..

Re what's mentione re advice from others, I support your thoughts...one has to make ones own decission(s)..

I don't really care what 517 other perofrmers think is the *best* method to achieve an effect -example: Final Solution -, from those 517, 386 at least have different options anyway..
Great to get advice, but one has to think oneselfes and not just follow advice, it might not work for *you*, but works well for the one giving the advice..

Werner: I couldn't have said it better myself.



OK Neil, I have to ask, because surely we aren't as "far apart" as it seems. Question: When you sit down with the props and mirror and work it out for yourself, don't you have books, or video, or DVD, or another magician there?