The only reason I am glad for the internet sites is because I am a student. If there was a magic dealer anywhere locally I would starve. I would spend all my money on magic tricks and forget about mankinds basic need for food. That would be a bad thing, for me anyway.

(I live in England but I am currently spending a year here in the States. That will help you understand this next bit.)

When I was younger (that makes me feel so old) we always used to take trips to Plymouth. I know this was initially what sparked my interest in magic, for somewhere on the backstreets of Plymouth was a small magic shop. I don’t remember if they sold anything advanced - being so young I was only shown the simple stuff.

The man behind the counter was the first person to show me a Svengali deck. At the age of just 4, I thought he was a god of some sort. He then offered to SELL ME THIS MIRACLE! Can you imgine my response?

My mother treated me to it there and then.
For awhile I was the happiest child alive.
The guy took me behind the counter (just so my mother couldn’t see) and showed me exactly how it was done. I could perform the trick but still didn’t understand how it worked.

The next year it was the stripper deck,
and so on, until the shop went out of business. I went through a dry spell of about eight years where I didn’t pick up so much as the Ace of Spades, let alone the whole deck.

I eventually got back into it again, but the point is, I would probably never have started doing magic if it weren’t for that man and his shop somewhere on the backstreets of Plymouth.

The Internet is big, and growing bigger.
So, what comes next? virtual magicians?
It’s just a shame that’s all.
And a tragedy that we are nearly powerless to stop it.


Gonz

After reading the various posts regarding Internet buying or Store Purchases. I have to add my comments.

As it was said in another post, no one Magic Store has everything. As I travel, I have met different dealers, some guard their tricks like diamonds, "Look don’t touch." Others give you a feel for the trick.

I’ve spent thousands of dollars in the shops and on the Internet. Let’s get real here. The Internet is the way of the future and a great way to shop.

Here’s what I did and do. I got to know Denny Hanney from Denny’s and Lees very well. (125 miles away) And he got to know me well enough to know my likes and dislikes. True his prices may be more than the discount houses, however, his method of forming customer relations is the best.

Anything ordered over the net is receieved in one day and back-orders are also filled as soon as they arrive. He knows that price is not an issue with me, it is the effect and what I like or dislike. I can ask him anything and he is generally on target 95% of the time. I know if I don’t like what he sent me or suggested I can return it. (Not a policy with Denny & Lee, however, given the amount I spend, I’m not a customer he would enjoy losing.)

I do not spend time searching the net for the cheapest price, I know and respect Denny’s opinion. (No, I don’t work for him.) In the past year, I only returned one item, and there had been numerous items he said I wouldn’t like. When I got to visit his shop and saw what he was saying was indeed right.

I would prefer the store environment, but there is none near me, so I am left with the net, or a several hour drive.

Finding a dealer with great customer relations is as important as displaying a knock-out trick.


_________________

Dennis Dowhy (800) 927-6671

www.Magic-Magic.com

[email]DennisDowhy@magic-magic.com[/email]

Like others said before, I think both have their good and bad points.

In the Netherlands there aren’t many magic stores.

And the few we have they are all in the North while I’m living in the South.

It would take me a full day to go there check out the magic and come back.

So it doesn’t happen that often that I go and buy things in a real store.

The internet is more practical for me and there are much more items for sale when you surf around a little.

The problem with the internet (and catalogs) is that the discriptions can sound great but when I finally own the trick it turns out to be not great at all.

In a normal store you often can see a trick shown in front of your eyes and then decide.
___________

:bunny: Is this really a bunny or just pikachu with long ears?

I second the comments about Denny & Lee’s magic shop. I don’t spend fortunes in magic (my wife would disagree!), but I do try to buy something whenever I’m in the area of Baltimore.

I know I can ask Denny and he will give me the straight scoop on something. Also, I love to browse the books. One other thing that helps Denny’s is his specialization in manipulative magic. He is able to get stuff that is hard to find elsewhere.

We had a conversation about a certain book/video publisher who shall remain nameless. They are a distributor of videos and books, yet you can also buy direct, and at discount prices! Does this make sense? While the service for mail order direct is good (as mentioned above, not everyone can get to a shop), why would you go to your local dealer to pay list price when you can order from the publisher cheaper?

Also, I don’t mind a store that doesn’t discount, but I do mind brick & mortar stores that overcharge. There is a store in NJ that has the Apocalypse Vol II for $95. This is $15 over the list price, and this is not an isolated item. I don’t understand how they can maintain business this way...

One other good shop is Barry Taylor’s in MD. They have to sell costumes at Halloween, but you can find lots of older books and tricks that are hard to find on the online shops. I, too, think a dual presence (Brick & Internet) will be helpful to those who can afford the time for the web support.


Doug A.

As if the problems that were listed in the second post in this thread were not enough, I can add another. I have seen people go into a magic shop, closely examine a prop, then go home and copy it!
Tasmania is not big enough to support a shop-front Magic store - Card tried it when he and his wife returned to be near her elderly parents in Launceston.
After a couple of months, he was not opening the shop until 10:30 and closing at 4pm. And then there were the people who wanted to leave their kids in the store for an hour or so to "look".
Everyone needs to appreciate that dealers who take on the high costs of a store-front do not automatically undertake to provide a free meeting place, coffee and doughnuts.
They provide a resource which needs to be paid for and most will appreciate and support those who understand that.

I do my research for magic tricks on the web, and when I find what I want I go to the magic shop and buy it. Money is not an issue with me, but, when you buy a trick from a shop you get much more than the trick itself. I wouldn't be able to do 1/2 the tricks I buy if I hadn't bought it from someone that can show me a story line and how the trick works. I am not the best at reading the written instructions that come with a trick and often times even a simple trick is lost on me.

Many online magic shops are now implementing video clips into their store-front and these can get expensive but I won't buy a trick until I have seen it done, so I think that the magic scene is currently undergoing a major change and the old brick and mortar shops will not last forever.

Hey Steve, I just read your post on this topic so far. I immediately wanted to say that here in Portland at Callin's Novelty and at Jim Paces White Rabbit Magic Co. they still offer that same communal help.

The owner of the Callins shop, John Greene helped me out daily last summer. A guy at Jim Paces shop named Seth continues to help me whenever I stop by.

I just think that there should be more and more shops like John and Jims. So helpful, always guiding me in the right place. Very much like this forum. Except it's a hands on experience.

I'm a casual birthdays and Christmas magician, and little likely hood of it ever being a career. I bought my first magic in Glasgow, Scotland when I was twelve and poor, and then made all my own props for ten years thereafter.

I bought about $100 worth from a California Magic Shop when I arrived here, age 40, and that shop is now out of business, in a locale where 6+ million folks live. ALL types of shops are failing because of the cost of operation. Existing small Magic Shops stay open because their owners love the business not the profit else they wouldn't work the hours they do. A web site runs itself 24hrs a day and takes credit cards too so go figure!

If there is any better way of selling an illusion to thousands of potential buyers tell me.

I use eBay to buy and sell and I love it - Heck I would be making money there except I spend the profits buying more. And I wouldn't have this venue Magic Cafe but for the web. I can still go to local magic clubs and meet real magicians and buy/sell there too.

I have one more comment to make about the web. Videos of Illusions can be dangerous, Remember the adage "don't repeat the trick"

I have to say that the repeat replay of many of the current videos can potentially give away the gimmick and I don't just mean the $10 packet tricks.

I vote we as a community make better videos or at least edit them to cut out the point where we "Gaffe the gaff" or telegraph the finesse.

I personally saved hundreds of dollars by watching one until I spotted the move and as I am prepared to build my own props I will probably do just that. But I won't be selling it on eBay - I do have principles.

Which brings me to another point - I see a number of eBay individuals who are selling dozens of packet tricks a month and (my point here) that's including illusion plans and reprints of mentalism etc, etc, I don't believe they are paying any royalty to anyone [just who owns Abbots Tent Illusion now anyway?] and they just throw poor copies, mis-stapled together into an envelope for as much as the sucker has bid. I know, I'm one who bought a few.

Thanks for this opportunity to participate.
RangeCowboy

It’s like any other kind of business: you have to move with the times. JB Magic in Blackpool is a fantastic brick shop but is also one the world’s largest online dealerships.

If you can’t supply what the customer wants then ultimately – yes – you’re going to go out of business. Some bricks shops have tried to go online but they’ve done it in a half-hearted way. This leads to poor service and disillusionment. If it’s going to be done it needs to be done well – and that’s what the ‘industry leaders’ are doing.

It seems also that there are a few people contradicting themselves in this thread - moaning about people hanging around in magic shops and then saying how wonderful they are as a supportive venue. You can’t play for both sides at once. What do you really want – peace and quiet or customers? If you aren’t going to let them hang out a little then they might just as well buy online. Don’t you think?

Cheers,

Matthew Blackwell

PS: Gosh I’m argumentative today aren’t I

I did not grow up with a magic shop in my area. I lived in rural Nova Scotia, and bought mail order from a dealer I found in the back of a Popular Science magazine (Hank Lee - my first purchase was from their very first catalog).

Now that I have returned to magic as an adult, I naturally thought that living in a large city would allow me the great advantage of a real honest-to-goodness magic shop, something I never had as a child and teenager in Nova Scotia.

There are two magic shops that I know of here in Toronto. One is rather far away, and I have not been there. The other is reasonably close. However, I've only gone twice, having had a couple of bad experiences there, and so I still use mail-order.

I found in the magic shop that it was impossible to get any guidance as to what purchasing decision I should make. This is what salesmen are supposed to do - you tell them what your needs are and they guide you to the product that is right for you.
But, all I got were salepeople that seemed to know very little and - at least this is how it seemed - responded to any query about anything by demoing the one out of some handful of tricks they knew that they thought sounded vaguely like what you asked about, which it of course didn't at all.

They seemed obsessed with only selling tricks they could demo, rather than helping me find what I wanted. And that was the knowledgable salesperson! The other time I went there and the person behind the counter literally had nothing to say to me except a shrug and to tell me to look around.

My conclusion was that I can do much MUCH better on the web. Even if the answers to my questions are not already available online, I'm sure a single post here on the Magic Cafe would provide me with far more information towards making an intelligent purchasing decision than what I encountered in this magic shop.

Hi Allan!

I live in Toronto as well. I suspect the shop you visited was Morrisey's. I had similar experieces there as well. I will never return.

You mentioned that the other shop was far away - but in fact it is only about 10 minutes from Morrisey's.

I am not sure of the last time you visited either as they have both moved a few times. But Browser's Den of Magic is right at the corner of Bathurst and Eglinton. I urge you to go there. Jeff Pinskey owns and runs the place and he is top notch. He is friendly and can point you in the right direction. Often when he was not knowledgeable in a certain area he would refer me to one of the other customers who was and hooked us up. You can visit the website at http://www.browsersden.com or call 416-783-7022.

Jeff also has all sorts of lecturers come in and runs a couple great auctions every year. In fact, he just announced that the next one is coming up on Sunday, May 5th. I will be there for sure, if you like, we can arrange to meet there that day.

Anyhow...drop by Browser's and you will be treated well.

Private message me if you have any more questions of if I can help you out some more.

Mitch

Mitch,

I've private messaged you about this, as I really don't want to say here which shop I was talking about, since it may be a premature opinion.

After browsing 3 pages of comments. It is apparent that we magic shops are a dieing institution. But that has always been the case. Magicians, come to your shop, bug you for hours, ask you rediculously stupid questions, and hardly ever buy anything unless you give them a discount. If I had to wait for you folks to show up we would all be out of business. Magicians never support their local magic shops! Must be an ego thing eh! For those of you who think that this is not true... of course their are exceptions. Just ask any real dealer!
As far as the internet is concerned. We find dissatisfied customers all the time. These cyber shops usually don't have an inventory of any kind,They give away our secrets to anyone who will read it, Is just one person selling stuff that usually isn't in stock...cause carrying any kind of inventory is not how these folks do business.
You know a lot of people never even recieve their orders or they arrive late. I could go on for hours. But nuff said...
Visit me at
http;//www.emagictricks.com