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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21282 Posts 
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Quote:
On 2007-03-31 09:55, Michaelmystic2003 wrote: I believe that I am going to politly decline the offer. Sorry, well not really sorry.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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michaelmystic2003 Inner circle 3068 Posts
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As you wish, Dannydoyle. All I ask is that please, in the future, refrain from the hurtful comments.
Michael Kras Posted: Mar 31, 2007 12:51pm Phillys, MagicSanta, and Dannydoyle may post here; there is no reason that they shouldn't be able to. All I ask is just Please, go easy on me from now on, and I will listen and thank you wholeheartedly for your advice. No more defensive comments! Regards, Michael Kras
Learn more about my upcoming book of close up magic and theory SYNTHESIS & SECRETS: A Magic Book in Four Acts: https://www.michaelkrasworks.com/synthesis-secrets
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21282 Posts
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I MAY POST HERE IF I WISH?
Are you kidding me? YOU do not decide this. We do. Moderators do. As for hurtfull comments, maybe look in the mirror first. Go easy? Ok we move back to square one. No problem. But those of us who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it. Did you read the reviews of your "lecture notes" and see his concerns? IF you want to start fresh, maybe addressing the comments in a nice fashion and answering a customers concerns would be a good way to start. You have a very disappointed customer with public questions about a product you put out there. Care to answer them like the other guys who put out magic stuff?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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BrianMillerMagic Inner circle CT 2050 Posts
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For those of you who are interested, I have posted a full thourough review of Michael's Ebook in the Ebook section of the Café. He asked for it, and I made sure he really wanted me to before I agreed. So there it is.
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michaelmystic2003 Inner circle 3068 Posts
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Thank you Brian!
Learn more about my upcoming book of close up magic and theory SYNTHESIS & SECRETS: A Magic Book in Four Acts: https://www.michaelkrasworks.com/synthesis-secrets
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
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Was I just banned by Michael Mystic?
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michaelmystic2003 Inner circle 3068 Posts
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No. I did not ban you.
 Just a while of weakness. That's all. I will just listen and thank guest from now on, also providing insightful advice and iformation to people around when needed.
Michael Kras Posted: Mar 31, 2007 2:07pm And thank you, Dannydoyle! Square one sounds great. I will check out my ebook review again. Michael
Learn more about my upcoming book of close up magic and theory SYNTHESIS & SECRETS: A Magic Book in Four Acts: https://www.michaelkrasworks.com/synthesis-secrets
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21282 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-03-31 14:06, Michaelmystic2003 wrote: See how fast old habits come up? The very idea of you passing insightfull advice is so absurd as to be funny. THAT is the problem. You don't seem to learn. Check the reviews, and answer the customer. Don't patronise us with your fake "I'll be good now" stuff. Nobody falls for it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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michaelmystic2003 Inner circle 3068 Posts
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Thank you, dannydoyle. "Check reviews, answer customers."
Posted: Mar 31, 2007 7:46pm Also, everyone who has my manuscript, please post your review in "The Good, The Bad, And The Garbage" forum. Thank you! Michael Kras
Learn more about my upcoming book of close up magic and theory SYNTHESIS & SECRETS: A Magic Book in Four Acts: https://www.michaelkrasworks.com/synthesis-secrets
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JoeJoe Inner circle Myrtle Beach 1915 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-03-28 14:02, Dannydoyle wrote: I'm thinking about printing that out and framing it on my wall of awards. Maybe even my testomials page. Thank you Danny. -JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
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michaelmystic2003 Inner circle 3068 Posts
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Yes, Joejoe. Thank you very much for your insightful advice. Before, I thought you were making fun of me and got defensive. But now I see the true value of those effects (Especially Ball Vase) and I thank you for your advice!
Michael Kras
Learn more about my upcoming book of close up magic and theory SYNTHESIS & SECRETS: A Magic Book in Four Acts: https://www.michaelkrasworks.com/synthesis-secrets
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David O New user 62 Posts
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I have no experience in the field of this, so I have no right to give advice, but I just checked out your website, and I don't think you should explain each of your effects as thoroughly as you do. Maybe state one effect, or else you will ruin the surprise. If you use other effects than those you listed, than I am wrong.
And I'm going to side with Michael Mystic on this case. I'm thirteen, and I wouldn't want to be treated the way many of you just treated him. Sure, he made a mistake, he might not fix it, and exaggerates his experience. Thise might seem like a alot, and they are, but it doesn't justify what many of you did. I personally don't care how experienced one is. If you can't criticize in a constructive, non-angry manner, than there is no point in criticizing. I also don't blame Michael for apologizing and sucking up (though you shouldn't, it annoys everybody), because I wouldn't want to be flamed, and I would apologize in a civilized manner to avoid being flamed. In four pages, there have been maybe three or five posts of good advice. The others have been flames. I don't care what a person has done, but if they ask a question, they deserve an intelligent answer. You can answer it and then criticize the person, but criticize in a way that will help him improve himself. Tough love is good, but I believe there could have been better ways of getting your point across, Danny. When I ask a question here, I expect an answer, not angry comments. I didn't expect this from the Magic Café. Do not take these as personal attacks. I have seen many of your posts in other places, and they were helpful. Here they were just flames. |
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johnnymystic Inner circle North Adams Ma. 1576 Posts
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JoeJoe, that truly is an incredible sword thru chest effect!
*&^%$$#@ awesome man!!! johnny Quote:
On 2007-03-31 22:38, David O wrote: Very well said, although I will admit most of the advice whether good or bad was a good and just learning experience for the lad. So far he (Michaelmystic)is fairing well and I wish him much luck! johnny
I drink cheap tequila and vomit
<BR>I cannot eat hot wings...acid reflux <BR>I never inhale 
<BR>I can put a field dress on a deer |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21282 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-03-31 22:38, David O wrote: So now the students tell the teachers how to teach? Oh my lord. Listen kid, when you want free advice, you don't get to question the manner in which it is provided. You may ignore it as Michale did with JoeJoe, at your own detriment. Here is the point. WE HAVE the information. It is up to YOU to act in a manner in which you can gain it from us. It is not up to me to change how I act so you "feel good" and also get free advice. I remember when I worked at Magic Inc. For more years than you guys have been born, and when a 13 year old came in he didn't say anything. Just hoped he would learn. He may ask a question or 2 but arrogance was out of the question. Well at some point if the mouth did open, you were invited to "put up or shut up". Which meant back up what it is you need to be saying. Funny how nobody ever really could put up. With the advent of the internet everyone is an expert immediatly at 13. Magic for 7 years and has lots of lecture notes out. If you can't see the folly of this and wonder why guys like JoeJoe are telling you to back off, then indeed you miss the point. Posted: Apr 1, 2007 2:07am Quote: On 2007-03-31 20:44, JoeJoe wrote: Quote: On 2007-03-28 14:02, Dannydoyle wrote: JoeJoe is the biggest advocate for the beginner street magician I have ever met. (that was a compliment). He is always encouraging. His advice is dead on accurate. Ignore this at your own perril. You would also be wise to look up some of his old posts for some context, as well as some other fantastic advice! I'm thinking about printing that out and framing it on my wall of awards. Maybe even my testomials page. Thank you Danny. -JoeJoe Suitable for framing, right arround the bottom of a bird cage LOL. I meant every word as you know, I don't say it if I don't mean it. You are welcome.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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michaelmystic2003 Inner circle 3068 Posts
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Thank you, David, and Dannydoyle, please just back off him. He is only trying to help.
Learn more about my upcoming book of close up magic and theory SYNTHESIS & SECRETS: A Magic Book in Four Acts: https://www.michaelkrasworks.com/synthesis-secrets
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David O New user 62 Posts
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Michael, I want to stand up for my point. When I came to the Café, I was treated like a peer. That's what makes it an enjoyable experience.
Danny, I am inferior to you in every aspect of magic. You have more experience than me, have more sleights than me, and probably perform better than me. Many people at the Café do, and that is why people ask for advice. Danny, you may give him advice, but at no point (I only read this once so I might be wrong), did you answer the question he provided. Does it hurt so much to answer a question and THEN criticize the question? And remember that there is nothing stopping a thirteen year old from being more original than you. I probably am not, and Michael may not, but wasn't it Vernon who had invented many of his own tricks by the age of thirteen? I'm in the SAM, and if they all ignored me, and expected me to just watch them, I would have quit. They treat me as a peer, but as a beginner. They don't treat me as an inferior. There is a difference. I recently went to Fantasma, and I met David Roth. If I wanted to tell him something he wouldn't say "Just sit in the corner and watch me talk to these people" (unless he was with a customer). He answered my question politely, and gave a few tips. He may have answered my question and then provided suggestions or reasons for why my question was "wrong" but at least he answered my question! He spent time to answer my question and chat with me. And he treated me as a peer, but not as an equal in magic. And in my opinion, magic advice was meant to be questioned, and that promotes originality (though that has little to do with my argument). Danny, you sound like Mrs. Martinka, who scared Vernon away the time he went to a magic shop. If this is the kind of support aspiring new magicians get, don't expect a very good new generation of magicians. |
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts
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In life you don't walk up to somebody and say "I am your peer".
They walk up to YOU after knowing you for a long while and say "You are my peer". .............see the difference there, "I am your peer"....."You are my peer". Don't forget that the 13 year old having never lived anywhere but in his bedroom at Mom and Dad's house isn't even close to the PROFESSIONAL magician who has been making his living for over two decades performing magic. This is a concept that young magicians MUST have clear in their heads in order for them to progress, and eventually be accepted to the fold by professional magicians. This process doesn't even involve an exchange of words, those whom you desire to accept you as a peer eventually just begin treating you as an equal. There's really no formal exchange of words. Some of the young folks in this thread aren't there yet........they're too loud, to cocky, and clearly not yet able to learn from those who could teach you. Saying David Roth can teach me, but nobody else here on the Café can only strengthens my point. Now, rather than come back ranting and raving, really read that and take the time to understand it. You'll have no success in telling folks you're THEIR peers.........whatever you have to do to understand that concept take the time to do it, it'll be worth it for you if you plan on staying in magic. You know, if you're with a group of very experienced magicians who are showing each other some coveted card, coin, or dice handlings, and when you walk up they either stop talking or outright ask you to leave, you're being told point blank that you're not there yet. The implication is to go and learn more and return to the group another day with more knowledge and people skills than you currently have. They may even offer to help you in another venue other than the one you're currently trying to walk into, but they're telling you you're not quite where you think you are in terms of being a 'peer'. That's similar to what's happening here, but unfortunately there's nobody listening. (BTW, as much as a guy like David Roth might give you a polite five minutes at Fantasma, guys like JoeJoe and DannyDoyle will give you a LOT more here on the Café. Roth usually takes money to teach you a valuble lesson, you'll be offered far more here on the Café from those who are in a position to teach, and all they ask in return is respect.......most understand this quickly, and work towards getting as much as they can from the Café's experienced users, some don't and it's their loss.) |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21282 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-04-01 09:29, David O wrote: Your last sentence proves the point. YOU'RE the one in charge of being a very good magician, NOT US. Read Silverking's post again. It is dead on and exactly what I meant.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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David O New user 62 Posts
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I believe we are using different definitions of peer. In my case, when I want to be addressed as a peer, I want to be addressed as somebody you can have a conversation with involving magic without being patronized. In your definition, it is somebody who is equal in your abilities. When you were two years into serious magic, I bet most of you could have had an intelligent conversation with Dai Vernon or any other great in magic. Sure, you wouldn't be on the same skill level, but I believe you could have chatted as peers. Just because he had the right to give advice and you didn't doesn't make you any less of a peer. It just means he is your superior. These may seem to contradict eachother, and I might not be using "peer" correctly, but I hope you see my point.
And David Roth was just an example, and now that I think about it, it was a bad example. And at no point in my "career" (for lack of a better word) in magic, I have not had to convince anybody that I was their peer. I have talked and asked questions at appropriate times, and I see your point Danny. And don't tell me that the magic community has no influence on the next generation of magicians. If nobody gives support, there will be many less new magicians. I understand that much of becoming a good magician is in my hands, but the magic community helps along the way. Also, Silverking, I agree with your points. As mentioned before, I have never pretended to be the equal of a professional magician. But I believe we are going off point of the original problem. This is about Michaelmystic, and his question about street magic, which could have been easily answered. Also, I think much of this could have been settled in PM's. And after thinking about it, I do believe I was a little rash in criticizing many of you. You are professional magicians, and I am a thirteen-year-old hobbyist. It is just that I can relate to Michael and wouldn't have wanted to have been treated the way he was. I like to fight for what I believe in. I still believe that I am correct in many of my points, but every person has an opinion, and I respect yours, and see your point. I have stated my case and have said all that I believe needed to be said, and after thinking I realize that some of it was flawed. I see no more reason to argue, because I have stated my case, have heard yours, and wasn't convinced in much of the arguments. I doubt that you will agree with many of my points, so further arguing is pointless and will make enemies, which is the last thing anybody needs. Wow, that last paragraph had redundancy problems. And Michael, telling people that they aren't allowed to post in your topic is ridiculous and makes you sound stupid. I wouldn't advise doing it again. |
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michaelmystic2003 Inner circle 3068 Posts
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Don'w worry, DavidO. I do not plan on it. If these guys want to continue posting their hateful messages, then I cannot stop them.
Learn more about my upcoming book of close up magic and theory SYNTHESIS & SECRETS: A Magic Book in Four Acts: https://www.michaelkrasworks.com/synthesis-secrets
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Posted: Mar 31, 2007 03:51 pm 