Does anyone know how to start the second row of that crocheting stuff? I have a 12 foot first row so far.

Michael, let me try to explain my discomfert. I understand that due to David Blaines first TV show the term 'street magic' now means walking up to a stranger and doing a trick then running off, most likely giggling. To me the term street magic is to gather a crowd, perform a show for them, then receive, if they want, payment for the show if they thing it had value. The people who perform Street Magic, as well as other street performers of skill, work very hard, usually have talent, and are the last of a long history of performer that too many municipalities are trying to stamp out. Strolling magic, be it on a sidewalk or in a closed party, is strolling magic.

You compound this by saying that you are, with your seven years of experience (which is a good bit), want to shoot a video on you performing so called street magic and then expose, I mean teach, five magic tricks. With this experience and with all the equipment you have (I have no clue what that could mean) you are asking others to tell you what tricks to perform. If you are an experienced strolling magician then why do you need others to provide routines for you to do? Shouldn't you, through your experience, have this knowledge?

You have insulted magicians by telling them that you are doing whatever you are doing for us. You have insulted a magic shop, then said you had no dealings with them, then you did. You need to learn when to jump ship and let things lie and then go away rather than digging deeper and deeper by first trying to act super friendly and supportive of others then flipping over and having a snit. There are many that will offer advice, there are many that will PM you secrets, there are also many that only can take a certain amount of nonsense before responding. Have a nice day.

WOW. Thank you, MagicSanta. I am sorry for insulting you ans other working professionals on the Café, and didn't mean any harm. And by the way, by "equipment" I meant effects and other supplies.

I didn't mean to insult of anger anyone on The Café, but some arrogant jerks on the Café, from past experiences, have hurt me, and this made me very defensive when I am on the Café.

I apologize.

Michael Kras

No one can you, these folks are nonenities. By that I mean they do not know you and you have every right to ignore what ever you want and embrace what ever you want. Some rant, some kiss up to every kid that comes along thinking they are a cyber Dai Vernon or something. Just roll with it and worry more about what is going on in the physical world around you not about those of us you may disagree with. Here is some advice for you to take along the rest of your life. Choose the hill you are willing to die for. That means don't carry on every fight because it just will frustrate and drain you. This isn't a hill worth worrying about kid.

Thank you. All of your comments have been helpful.

Posted: Mar 30, 2007 8:17pm
The only thing is, I so not want to ignore someone. If they post something useful to me, I thank them and tell them what I got out of their advice.

I also have a question: Which of Paul Hariis' works do you recommend? It can be everything from Dvds to books to effects.

Another question: When I am trying to book gigs or get restaurant magic gigs, how do I get "clients" or "employers" to take me seriously and actually CONSIDER hiring me?

Thank you!

Michael Kras

Michael, this is where it all comes out. After all this boasting and frankly insulting the true professionals on these forums, you finally ask for advice on how to get hired. This completely makes a mockery of everything you been trying to stand your ground for. I'm trying hard to help you, both here in public and in the PMs, but you're making this nearly impossible.

To answer the question, at 13, employers will likely not take you seriously unless you can either pass for 18 or are the next "god" of magic. I can safely assume that right now, you are neither. Sorry, but that's how it is. Spend the next five years honing your craft so that when you are of age to get professional gigs, you will be lightyears ahead for your age.

For years I had a youthfull look about me and in my mid twenties I still looked rather youngish, it was hard even then trying to get taken seriously and get booked.

Years later I've grown bald and look older, also now I have a huge promo pack which took years to acquire thur many performances. All this helps to be taken seriously. Too bad it took going bald to do it! lol

johnny

Well here is where being a child does not help.

GROW UP if you want to be taken seiously.

You get defensive, but you are 13. So since you were a big 6 years old you have been at this huh? Well when guys who have been being paid to do magic for over 20 years, which is more than your 13 years plus the 7 by the way, find it offensive if you suddenly want to treat us as if you are a peer.

You then compound this by thinking you know what we do, then you ask very basic questions. Questions that you should know the answers to IF you were as experienced as you want to be treated as.

You want to be treated as an adult and refuse to act like one. Sorry but your inexperience shows every post. Now if you back up, go back to learning, instead of trying to teach, you may be better recieved.

I am sick of sugar coating things for children who have ego issues and want to treat me like a peer. YOUR NOT. Sorry.

Thank you everyone!

I am not trying to teach Café members like peers, just trying to converse with them as well as getting advice. I wouldn't be on here as much if I merely asked for advice.

I will try to act as mature as possible without acting like a peer to the Café members. I came here to learn, and that is what I plan on doing from now on!

Michael Kras

Danny is trying to say DON'T TREAT ANYONE HERE LIKE PEERS. He doesn't mean by teaching or whatever. Just don't talk to the people here like peers because you are in no way a peer to any of them. Just show them respect.

How is that hard?

Wow.. I've never seen Café members 'tear someone a new one' on the Café before. So, congratulations for being the first.

It is not right that you are complaining about us being jerks and hurtful after all the brain damage and precious time wasting that you have done to us. Michael, you are starting to get really really annoying with the 'new way' you carry yourself. I don't want to boast, but I have this strange instinct where I can tell if another person is genuine or not. I can tell that you're only faking your posts because you want to somehow milk advice out of the veterans and experienced magicians here(which you don't have to, by the way). You were hoping that by faking to make it seem like you are agreeing with us then we will say things like "DAVID BLAINE IS COOL DAWG AND YOU ARE THE NEXT GOD OF MAGIC, Michael".

Sorry to disappoint you, mate. It's not going to happen.

About your 'lecture notes' Mad About Magic that you sent me?

I think it's terrible. I can't even bring myself to properly focus on it to work through your promised 'original effects'. All I see are a bunch of moves that are published somewhere else like Tarbell and Royal Road to Card Magic, written out with poor English and sentence structure. I'm an Asian from an Asian country. English is my THIRD language. I was expecting a lot more from someone like you who speaks English as his first language.

There are no illustrations and no good way of explaining things. Obviously you don't seem to have bought and studied many quality books and lecture notes because yours not only looks like but also sounds like magic book for kids. I really don't see anyone, working magician or not, paying money for these kind of material.

Well, maybe there are people who gets conned into buying your notes through FALSE ADVERTISING. You advertised about how great your notes and effects are but none of them met with my low expectations. Heck, you even LIED in your notes. You claimed in one particular 'effect' that you have used it for CAM 2007 Close-Up Magic Competition but right here on Café you were asking for advice on what to perform and do for the CAM 2007 Close-Up Magic Competition.

Terrible terrible terrible. It's horrid. Even Simon Cowell would say "Apalling." I'm having a migraine right now thanks to your notes. I hope you enjoyed giving me that.

Cheers.

As I said, definatly NOT my peer.

This is something for folks who go to conventions to remember. There are specific levels of accomplishment and ability in magic. We are all not equal and you need to understand that then you'll get along better with others. At the last convention I went to the people I was friendly with were, magically, superior to me (and to 95% of you) and when they sessioned I never assumed to be part of it. Magically I was not in the same league yet outside of that one area we were pals. Magicians who are accomplished do NOT owe you an explanation of an effect or routine, they do not need to share with you, they do not need to see your version of the latest double lift you picked up watching David Blaine on The Ellen Show. Treat others with respect, respect for their position in the art, and treat them like people and you'll do better in the long run. If you treat folks as folks and don't make demands on them you'll find them more open about some routine or method, or maybe not, and if not that is certainly up to them and not a reason to get punky with them.

This has grown a bit harsh if indeed this person is only thirteen years old...

****...would we talk too or treat our own children this way?

Isn't this a brotherhood?


And my goodness if Mr. Danny Doyle suffers from headaches due to the silly nature of these forums then the poor man should take a break for a spell.

Magic Santa I too have felt the need to knit while viewing such interesting topics such as this...isn't that weird? Where does the inspiration come from I ask?



Wow!

Really Danny boy.... would you talk to your kids this way and expect them to grow up because you demand it!? Do you even have kids?

Too bad this isn't an April Fool's joke it might be funny...if I'd have thought of it that is!

Hahahahahhhhhahhhha!!!




Sorry Phillys but I had to quote you on this one, I do not mean to offend.

But why shouldn't we all be treated as equals (peers) here? We are magicians helping magicians are we not and respect should be given as well as received, I mean c'mon they tried to teach us this in kindergarten?

johnny

Don't worry about it. We're here to discuss, anyway.

It is one thing to be treated as peers and another thing to want to be a peer to talk down on others. Maybe I worded my post wrongly. Or I have a wrong perspective and got carried away.

There are times we should all question our perspectives...you are wise my friend.

johnny

http://www.myspace.com/chris_robertson



The very first magic trick I ever learned was from Mister Rogers, way back in the early 70's Mister Rogers made a salt shaker pass magically thru a table top...since that day I was into magic and thought of myself as a magician. This happens when one is young...it's okay.

Now prepare to bow down to the Café Gods of the magic world or woe be unto you all!

;)

johnny



Michaelmystic,

May I suggest checking out the Sidewalk Shuffle Forum here at the Café, there you will find a most stimulating topic concerning 'street magic' and 'busking' it's sticky and at the top of the forum, have a read if you will!

johnny

Johnny you don't know me well enough for the Danny Boy Crap.

Is this a brotherhood? Use your head.

IF my kids showed up here at 13 acting like this what would I expect? Well guess what? They never would show up here acting like this at 13. They would not put out crappy lies in lecture notes. They would not treat others who they wish to learn from with complete disrespect.

See here is the point. We all have a place in life. It is really bad when we don't know what that place is. Now at 13 he seems to think his place is right up there as a peer, as a knowledgeable magician. Not gonna happen.

Listen to Brian Johnny. Brian has spoken some of the most profound words on the subject. He is trying to help the kid, and yet the kid still acts the way he does. Brian is only 19. But guess what, he is treated far differently. His magic information base is nowhere near as high as it will be when he is 30, 50 and so on, but guess what? He is treated as a peer. Why? Simple because he knows how to conduct himself as an adult. That is a skill.

I am quite impressed by Brian. He may not have nearly the magic knowledge or skill I do, but I treat him as a peer. I will share anything with him, help him on business things and encourage him as a peer. He is one. See the difference?

To reward bad behavior of a child who has no idea how to act, is counter productive. So before you even think of posting some smart comment about this just keep it to yourself.

You get treated as you treat others. When you are 13 and start the way this guy did, then when the first reviews of his "lecture notes" come out and they are less than stunning, you reap what you sow. Maybe teaching the kid some manners and tough love is what he needs. Maybe then he learns how to act.

I know you like to argue, and fire people up, but please don't do that here.

Hmmmmmm....

He is 13? He needs to remember he is a kid and others are adults and there is a difference. I think back to the kids from a few years ago that use to be on line in different forums and here. One young man was 14, very serious about magic, he was polite and joined in conversations but he didn't brag, didn't make up stuff, he was a nice kid. He is now a lawyer in LA and I just saw him post on the Café about a week ago. He knows who he is. Other kids have gone on to universities and studied gambling and others into the military etc, they all have a common thread in that they wanted to learn and acted like it. Then there are the kids that were abrasive, were going to be super stars of magic, all that, sometimes trying to sweet talk their way into good gracious only to blow it again. They are not around any longer, they have vanished into other interest.

I don't hang out with kids because I am not a kid and I wouldn't really trust a kid who would want to hang out with a fat old geezer like me. I don't mind the role of teacher or mentor if the kid doesn't mind the role of student. I hate to say this because the PC crowd may have issues with it but I look at kids as kids and to me a kid is younger than my kids so if you are early 20's or younger you are a kid to me. This doesn't apply if you are female, at 18 you become a rare and wonderful human to be worshipped for the next 30 years or so then tolerated after that.

Thank you Santa.

Thank you, Johnnymystic. I believe this is all getting out of hand, and am going to politely ask MagicSanta, Dannydoyle, and Phillys to stop posting here.

Michael Kras

Michael, if that is what you want, then that is what you get. Cause typing long posts on my part takes lots of time and effort and it's not quite worth doing it now, since you're too stubborn. Almost like a rock.

Do what you want and whatever makes you happy. All the best in your future and try not to step on any bear traps.

Cheers.