Does the guy who invented Sybil get paid? How about the double lift? When T.G. put it in a book, he got paid. Is that the one reason people buy the book. In all honesty, a lot of people didn't even know about T.G. Murphy till they saw this DVD. And people have permission to use a move that was talked about in the book with lots of other material. Remember people are buying the book, not the move.

They discovered the move in the book, like other moves and sleights in other books. If this guy has one thing against a move of his properly credited in someone else's project, then this guy shouldn't have published it, as Lee said. And, T.G.'s probably making more money off Imagication, now that he's had publicity with his move. He's making more, then losing it.

Second, of course the Cobra wasn't made to show-off. Yet, Devo does a pretty good job of it at his website.

Oh, might I add, it's you guys who have brought it up and have been praising Devo and Jerry on this board. So sorry that "we" always bring these guys up.

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So it's not stealing, when you take TG's stuff, but it is, when you take Asher stuff?
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It's not stealing when you credit T.G., as well as when you credit Asher. But we are talking a move versus an effect. If you do an Asher effect and do a swivel cut as opposed to a swing cut and the rest is the same, you are stealing. If you do the same with a T.G. Murphy effect, then that's stealing. Even if you give credit. It was really still the owner's creation.

Now, a move or sleight is different. You can teach the whole move, if giving proper credit. Same with Asher's moves or T.G.'s. But giving credit and teaching a move as a separate item on a website, THAT'S STEALING. Selling it? Pirating. It's all about ethics, which from reading these posts, aren't plainly visible.

Ladies and Gentleman, the Deck Flip is a move. It can be considered a flourish, but it is still qualified as a teachable move. On the whole CD thing, it's different. You can still use the same words or notes from other songs, maybe not in order, and it would be legal. Why, if we were to compare magic to music in that way, we would have all been in jail for using the pass or double lift years ago.

Ellusionist would have to make a variation in order for them to teach it. And besides, a Buck cut is a series of actions and is more than a move. It's a series of moves. A Deck Flip is a single action. A cut has more actions.

The Molecule 2 Production, the Deck Flip (not even the revelation) is the one part of the cut that isn't "original." They did a piece with the deck flip as help, but they did teach original stuff with it.

2 Cents People, 2 Cents.

A lot of you keep saying how you're here to further the art and so forth, which is a hypocritical in the fact that you're arguing over teaching a move. Now more people know about TG Murphy (myself included) and will want to buy his material. I know I'm looking for a copy of Imagication.

And while we're at it, praising Jerry and De'vo for their ethics and bashing the Bucks for teaching another person's move with credits, allow me to ask this. In Jerry Cestkowski's Encyclopedia Of Card Flourishes, did he invent every move or flourish taught? Furthermore, did he get the creator's permission to teach all the moves? In the ad it mentions teaching everything, including the Charlier Pass, which we all know he didn't invent.

I would assume he credits the creator(s) for moves, but he's still teaching someone else's moves and making money off of it. So, is Jerry allowed to and the Bucks not?

My point exactly and let me take this one step further. These flourish guys of yours, Devo and Jerry, guess what, folks... Butterfly Cut was taught in Jerry's book, permission from Paul Harris? I highly doubt it, at least, I must know, since credit wasn't even given to him!

And, oh, what a surprise! T.G. Murphy's exact Deck Flip, appears in Jerry's book too. He's given credit, but I don't see anything saying he got permission.

Hmmm... seems the Flourishman can get away with the same thing as the Bucks without being accused. Probably because he's the
"Flourishman."

You all have good points...
Jerry did get permission for most of the moves, but it is an encyclopedia, and credits are all throughout the book. I know there were a few people that didn't want their moves in the book and Jerry was considerate and didn't publish them. Bucks didn't even try to get permission -

They are obviously not violating any laws, but I thought it was messed up to TG Murphy that they didn't even ask him. - and it's not just the deckflip, but the production. Also I don't like the fact they don't have any material of their own, just make variation upon variation of everyone else's moves.

Also as I previously stated, they aren't
"MY" flourish guys. They are 2 of many that I admire.

Everyone will make their own decisions on ethics. And always have...

ps.. the Lee Asher site was a joke, just trying to make a point! Unlike the Bucks, I DO have ethics, and would never do something like that!

Good to see you do have a heart Mack

Seriously though, we all respect your opinion. We know that you are a big fan of De'Vo and Jerrys and let's face it, who isn't?

But, I am also a big fan of the Bucks. Not for their flourish abilities, but for their thinking and the fact that they go against the grain of the industry standard of magic.