I'm just speaking to the fact that it seems like everyone is looking for someone to blame, be it the mods, people who gave him harsh comments... So e even blame themselves. You don't think I feel bad that I read the effin post and didn't even send him a pm to call me. He has my home and cell number along with the explicit ok to call 24/7 and I will answer. I don't remember who posted the crass response and I don't want to know because if Kevin didn't go the route he did and got some help and came back on the board he may even have had a chuckle about it. Was it an inappropriate time to make a joke? Yes. But I don't feel it was done to push him over the edge ( he has been teetering on it for some time to have gone through with this) and certainly the poster in question is not to blame the name does not come to mind so he is someone who I didn't readily recognize from the forum. He may not really have know Kevin and his issues. Just saw a post titled I Love You All Goodby and may have thought it was a joke. I read it and knew this much - he said he tried and the support broke and said he would do it again.

Knowing that many if not most suicide attempts are really cries for help my thought to be honest was, if this is true he is making enough noise for someone to hear by breaking the first support. Many years ago, I did the same thing ( different methodology but where someone would I icky get to me) and it was just that - a cry for help, and I got it. It cost me a couple years of my life that I should have been enjoying life, I was just a bit younger than Kevin at the time. But I got therapy and meds and went on with a pretty decent life. My recent bout with cancer has unlocked a lot of my old demons that were lying in wait for the right moment to resurface and I battle with depression daily now. I really understood him and put myself out to him through PM and offering my phone numbers ( I don't do that for just anyone).

We are all going to grieve in our own ways, some will look to blame, some will wonder if they could have done more some may break down into tears and some will feel a bit of a loss and go on. There are probably even some who could care less. Sad but true. I guess I would ask, let's not berate the mods unless we absolutely know they did something wrong instead of just assuming that they did nothing. They may have a protocol for this type of thing or this may cause them to create one. I apologize to anyone who disagrees, but it should have been pulled. It's not something everyone needed to read. If nothing else, the reply should have been removed and dealt with and the topic locked and moved. I think the mods did their jobs.

Cablerock, I agree, I thought people were all up in arms about Octopus Sun too but after re-reading I realized many were talking about the nameless person who posted the hanging coins reply. Not everyone is directing their posts toward Octopus Sun. Some are a tally toward the other and I agree with your views on octopus suns posts.

Is that any different than the cyber bullying we hear about in many high school suicides?
I'm not trying to say it is, or isn't. I'm just wondering.
Obviously there is some truly horrible bullying going on in those cases, and, sadly, many "bullies" are oblivious/don't think what they are doing is "bullying."
But, is what we saw here something that also happens in those cases, and is lumped in with bullying?

This is true too.
I completely missed the original thread. What I am reading here, as to what was posted in that thread, is rather terrible.

Maybe you ought to look at Kevin's responses and see how he felt about it and the suicide jokes he referred to, as well.

And those are not okay, at all. I don't think there is any dispute there.

To be clear, I didn't see the deleted thread, so I have no idea who posted what in the responses. That's not what I was referring to and if that's what everybody here is talking about, I'm sorry for the mistake.
EDIT: Just made sure and the post I quoted was indeed referring to O.S.

I'm just going to say it. I am having a problem with this sort of blame casting that has been going on towards Octopus Sun. I think that it is really messed up. I know nobody has mentioned his name about it, but I've seen several posts eluding to this, and it really upsets me.

I agree that he can be a bit harsh with his words, but one can not expect every person to edit themselves to account for other person's feelings or beliefs. He didn't do anything wrong, and he certainly is not to blame for what happened. Not even a bit. As most of you have probably seen, Octopus Sun only said what everybody else was too polite and nice to say, which several people mentioned after his post. Though it was hard to hear, it was indeed constructive criticism, which any performer in the world is going to hear a million times worse if they actually get into the entertainment business.

One of the lessons I have learned in life is that there will be people like Octopus Sun who straight up tell it like they see it, regardless of the fact that they are may be insensitive to other peoples feelings. I feel that people like O.S. are a blessing, and you can more in minutes from people like him than you could in months with other people. Also, on this note, keep in mind you don't have to agree with the things that anybody says, and what you learn may not necessarily reflect their positions. "What Peter says about Paul tells more about Peter than Paul".

I hope I didn't offend anybody, but I just had to speak my mind about this one.
[/quote]
I agree with you whole heartly cablerock
Todd

If you mean to the suicide post, I'm sorry, there was only 1 response when I read it and it was gone before I saw it again and found out what happened, as for the guy from wherever he was going to lecture making the "jokes " telling him to kill himself - everyone thought that was not cool.

I didn't see the "suicide post".

I guess I was one of the few unfortunate people who did, and will probably NEVER forget it after all this.

Everybody, huh? As if all who are polite and nice are liars, is that it? And you wonder why Kevin thought EVERYBODY agreed? That was DESTRUCTIVE criticism, obviously. Humiliating a guy who didn't need humiliating, in my opinion. See Kevin's response. Far more balanced in tone. I'll tell you who's naive and needs to grow up here: everyone who thinks words can do no harm, and have done none here, that's who.

I just watched the video he posted. What was there criticism about? It looked like a potentially very useful idea.

Page 2, gdw.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......start=30

I didn't post when I read it the other day, and I'm not sure why, because I did consider it and now feel I should have. Kevin sounded fairly well to me, maybe, and I've got my own stuff going on, as we all do. I don't know, maybe I didn't want to give the impression he needed defending as from what I hear, guys resent being defended- somehow think it makes them appear incompetent, which I understand but at the same time think is a load of bullsh!t. I'm not sure- maybe Kevin didn't want me to say anything, somehow. As Doug said, confusion all around. One thing I know, Kevin did come here for help and we need to consider what happened.

I've been watching his videos on YouTube. I've been crying.

Such a tragic loss no matter what, but he was doing some beautiful coin work, and too think that he was being harshly criticized over these videos.

Personally I don't think it's anyone's place her to offer suck tough love advice as "get your **** together and stop whining" on a public forum. Those are words for a private message or phone conversation, with all due respect to all. Words on a page can be interpreted in many different ways.

I do not believe, however, that this or any other one thing caused what happened. So much goes on in the mind of someone in such a dark and fragile state that we will probably never know what really happened.

Let's all remain friends.
Peace to all

MIke

+1

Perhaps we should not be openly discussing his possible issues with depression on a public forum, out of respect for him and his family?

But we should be discussing his unconfirmed suicide? You guys really do confuse me, sometimes.

I wasn't saying that either. Though I thought it had been confirmed, you may have a point, however, this is still a community, and as a community, people will share what they are experiencing.

While no one here is going through what his family are, people will have emotions, and it is good as a community, and as individuals, that we don't avoid discussing what we are processing as well.

I don't see how discussing depression would be disrespectful to Kevin, in the slightest. Awareness is what's needed.